I have a bad habit of using Caucasian and Middle Eastern interchangeably, in large because the 2 populations are intertwined/close enough that they are sometimes considered regional variants of a broader Iran-Caucasus genetic continuum rather than fundamentally separate populations.
Modern middle eastern people are heavily descended from CHG as are Europeans to a lesser extent. That is why georgians cluster with middle easterners. We began to argue about this because I asserted that middle easterners were seeded by ancient europeans which you felt was unsupportable. If we are talking about CHG, they lived right on the border ( satsurblia cluster and dzudzuana are maybe 50 miles into Asia) but I feel that the spirit of my argument holds especially when you consider CHG comes from an even more northerly pre-LGM population
I'm pretty sure that the bulk of their ancestry is pre-LGM even if their supposed roots are from the North. Otherwise you may as claim that modern Hungarians are of Asiatic stock,
Im not sure what you mean here. Every group has pre-LGM roots. “Hun”-garians are an interesting case which we will leave till another day.
To think of, you have Pajeets make this claim about themselves too. "We wuz originally Aryans from Europe, and it still makes up most of our genes!"
This is literally true of some upper caste indians.
Reality check: CHG is most present in the proximity of Caucasus, outside it seldom even reaches a quarter. Most of the time the exaggarated CHG figures are due to models being unable to differentiate it from Neolithic Iranian impact. Don't try too hard, just Google dna results of other plebs. On my part, my CHG hovers around 10-15%. I mean come on, between Anatolian, Zagrosian, Hunter-Gatherer, etc, how much space does that leave us with for CHG?
No I don’t think this is right. If we are talking about who modern groups are descended from in the mesolithic, middle easterners are heavily descended from CHG or groups closely related to CHG. Zagros neolithic farmer is closely related to CHG with a little extra ANE in it, I think. My understanding is that anatolian farmer is a mix of WHG with some natufian like ancestry. Middle easterners are mainly a mix of CHG and natufian (natufian containing the non-european basal eurasian component). Its arbitrary which era/population your ancestry analysis will trace you to, but some of these ancestries are not mutually exclusive, like caucasus and zagros.
Eurogenes:12.31% Gedrosia:13.48% PuntDNAL:9.3%
Are these your CHG percentages from 3 different genetic applications? I still say most of your named components will have high affinity with a CHG/Dzudzuana type ancestry with some ancestry also coming from ANE, a little WHG, and some mystery meat that was high in natufians which we call basal eurasian.
Why are so many of your claims in reverse? It's as if a Japanese person is telling me that East Asians have high amount of Jap contribution, and not the other way around. Do you see how many things are wrong with that statement? Your claims boil down to most of humanity originating in Europe, then migrating to the rest of the world.
I can make a good case for this. Not in anyway that these faggots would appreciate because they think Margret Thatcher was walking around europe 1 million years ago and she fucked a monkey and voila: black people were born. Of course thats not true— there werent any people who looked or acted like whites until maybe 10kya, give or take.
But I can argue that homo sapien, neanderthal, denisovan and heidelbergensis all descended from homo antecessor, a european species of homo. Homo antecessor was not a german, or a frenchman. He was not us. But whether you are talking about hominins from the early paleolithic or more modern groups of the mesolithic and neolithic, there is north to south migration. Its arbitrary to declare the overall direction of human migration to be north-to-south in the same way that OoA is arbitrary. But its not arbitrary to say that most of the innovations in the homonin population emerged in colder climates and not the tropics. Hunting for instance was pioneered in cold climates almost certainly because cold climates have a lack of plant food for extended portions of the year. Hunting as a major food strategy likely provided the biggest impetus for an increase in intellect beyond the other great apes (who hunt very little and badly). High IQ and monogamy both are positively corellated to distance from the equator. This is true in both west and east eurasia, and theres a ton of evidence that indigenous people living in the subtropical and tropical zones like the middle east, india and south east asia were largely replaced by people from colder climates during the neolithic and later.
And Im not alone in saying this sort of thing. There is absolutely support for this among academics. Multiregional human evolution is gaining steam as is Cold Winters theory. I do not blindly accept “consensus” narratives especially in a field like this one. I look for alternative hypotheses and I choose the one that makes sense to me. Most of the folks here reject all modern science as totally false, whereas I know that its only partially corrupt and frequently corrects itself in time. So I don’t trust scientists who are frequently subject to the whims of political fads. I make educated guesses.
Normally i can't blame you for your mistakes since your environment (greatest country on Earth) doesn't provide enough intellectual stimulation to push you ahead past a certain point, but this one example so flagrantly defies common sense.
This is an unworthy argument.
Ironically you are the greatest anti-racist on this platform, since according to you the 20 figures distance between a Moroccan and Spaniard is merely illusory since they are both mostly of European stock
Its hard to overstate how much more related I am to a moroccan than a nigger. That is why I say Whiteness is a cline and it is arbitrary where you draw its boundaries. There is heavy relatedness among West Eurasians (including north africans) relative to all other groups .
I am still a racist because I recognize that theres a behavioral signal that makes White nations “nice” nations to live in, and that signal is strongest in northern europe. And this signal isn’t determined by how many generations removed you are from a German, its determined by what life strategy you have pursued in those intervening generations. The mediterranean has not been the most eugenic place to live over the last couple thousand years— northern europe has been better for producing intellegent, non-corrupt, non-violent, hard working people. Selection for behavioral traits among human populations happens far more rapidly than I had previously thought. We can debate which factors were at play in the eugenics/dysgenics of various caucasian populations but clearly many of them have to do with climate.
Except cold isn't the only pressure to innovate,
No, there is wet vs dry. Elevation may be another one. Being land locked vs living on an ocean/sea/river. In modern times, governments and legal systems have become a selective pressure.
There might have been instances where Northerners brought high civilization to Southerners, but there's no reason to believe this was the rule.
This is not what I am arguing. Im arguing that groups who evolve hi IQs in high latitudes move to warmer latitudes where they experience an increase in population density and an increase in leisure time. This results in an acceleration of cultural/technological advances which lead to a higher volume of impressive artifacts in the archeological record. But the warmer latitudes do not cause the increase in intellect.
And perhaps when the society experiences too much prosperity, mortality goes down and “inferior” individuals survive (dysgenics). Alternatively more intelligent people are mixing with less intelligent groups in their region (like what happened in india) Its probably some of both. But something dysgenic happened in mesopotamia and Egypt and even Greece. Clearly. They ain’t building shit. Let me know your theory as to why this occured.
To claim that your average Egyptian/Mesopotomian/Assyrian etc was of largely Near Eastern stock while the ruling elites were of Caucasus requires immense evidence!
We have it. Natufians were replaced by anatolian farmers and caucasus like people. There were additional waves of steppe ancestry. Hell, you have R1b “ANE/steppe” lineages in pharoahs like Tutenkhamon and Akenaton and even as far south as Chad! That is siberian ancestry. You have Mycenaean ancestry in the Philistines.
The same thing occured in SE Asia. All the languages they speak like Thai and austronesian and austroasiatic and Hmong originated from a migration from south china. Those languages were almost all replaced in south china by the languages of north china (early chinese). The original people of SE Asia prior to the agricultural revolution were abos similar to indigenous aussies and andaman islanders. The North produces successive waves of ever smarter people who migrate south, take shit over and mix with the locals. This is definitely a world wide trend.
And you should work on your prose, i see you are excited to have an opportunity to share the fruits of your extensive researches but it can become really painful winnowing and organizing your thoughts.
I think this is at least somewhat true. I hate writing in these little boxes— its hard to edit.
PostWallHelena 0 points 13 hours ago
Modern middle eastern people are heavily descended from CHG as are Europeans to a lesser extent. That is why georgians cluster with middle easterners. We began to argue about this because I asserted that middle easterners were seeded by ancient europeans which you felt was unsupportable. If we are talking about CHG, they lived right on the border ( satsurblia cluster and dzudzuana are maybe 50 miles into Asia) but I feel that the spirit of my argument holds especially when you consider CHG comes from an even more northerly pre-LGM population
Im not sure what you mean here. Every group has pre-LGM roots. “Hun”-garians are an interesting case which we will leave till another day.
This is literally true of some upper caste indians.
No I don’t think this is right. If we are talking about who modern groups are descended from in the mesolithic, middle easterners are heavily descended from CHG or groups closely related to CHG. Zagros neolithic farmer is closely related to CHG with a little extra ANE in it, I think. My understanding is that anatolian farmer is a mix of WHG with some natufian like ancestry. Middle easterners are mainly a mix of CHG and natufian (natufian containing the non-european basal eurasian component). Its arbitrary which era/population your ancestry analysis will trace you to, but some of these ancestries are not mutually exclusive, like caucasus and zagros.
Are these your CHG percentages from 3 different genetic applications? I still say most of your named components will have high affinity with a CHG/Dzudzuana type ancestry with some ancestry also coming from ANE, a little WHG, and some mystery meat that was high in natufians which we call basal eurasian.
I can make a good case for this. Not in anyway that these faggots would appreciate because they think Margret Thatcher was walking around europe 1 million years ago and she fucked a monkey and voila: black people were born. Of course thats not true— there werent any people who looked or acted like whites until maybe 10kya, give or take.
But I can argue that homo sapien, neanderthal, denisovan and heidelbergensis all descended from homo antecessor, a european species of homo. Homo antecessor was not a german, or a frenchman. He was not us. But whether you are talking about hominins from the early paleolithic or more modern groups of the mesolithic and neolithic, there is north to south migration. Its arbitrary to declare the overall direction of human migration to be north-to-south in the same way that OoA is arbitrary. But its not arbitrary to say that most of the innovations in the homonin population emerged in colder climates and not the tropics. Hunting for instance was pioneered in cold climates almost certainly because cold climates have a lack of plant food for extended portions of the year. Hunting as a major food strategy likely provided the biggest impetus for an increase in intellect beyond the other great apes (who hunt very little and badly). High IQ and monogamy both are positively corellated to distance from the equator. This is true in both west and east eurasia, and theres a ton of evidence that indigenous people living in the subtropical and tropical zones like the middle east, india and south east asia were largely replaced by people from colder climates during the neolithic and later.
And Im not alone in saying this sort of thing. There is absolutely support for this among academics. Multiregional human evolution is gaining steam as is Cold Winters theory. I do not blindly accept “consensus” narratives especially in a field like this one. I look for alternative hypotheses and I choose the one that makes sense to me. Most of the folks here reject all modern science as totally false, whereas I know that its only partially corrupt and frequently corrects itself in time. So I don’t trust scientists who are frequently subject to the whims of political fads. I make educated guesses.
This is an unworthy argument.
Its hard to overstate how much more related I am to a moroccan than a nigger. That is why I say Whiteness is a cline and it is arbitrary where you draw its boundaries. There is heavy relatedness among West Eurasians (including north africans) relative to all other groups .
I am still a racist because I recognize that theres a behavioral signal that makes White nations “nice” nations to live in, and that signal is strongest in northern europe. And this signal isn’t determined by how many generations removed you are from a German, its determined by what life strategy you have pursued in those intervening generations. The mediterranean has not been the most eugenic place to live over the last couple thousand years— northern europe has been better for producing intellegent, non-corrupt, non-violent, hard working people. Selection for behavioral traits among human populations happens far more rapidly than I had previously thought. We can debate which factors were at play in the eugenics/dysgenics of various caucasian populations but clearly many of them have to do with climate.
No, there is wet vs dry. Elevation may be another one. Being land locked vs living on an ocean/sea/river. In modern times, governments and legal systems have become a selective pressure.
This is not what I am arguing. Im arguing that groups who evolve hi IQs in high latitudes move to warmer latitudes where they experience an increase in population density and an increase in leisure time. This results in an acceleration of cultural/technological advances which lead to a higher volume of impressive artifacts in the archeological record. But the warmer latitudes do not cause the increase in intellect.
And perhaps when the society experiences too much prosperity, mortality goes down and “inferior” individuals survive (dysgenics). Alternatively more intelligent people are mixing with less intelligent groups in their region (like what happened in india) Its probably some of both. But something dysgenic happened in mesopotamia and Egypt and even Greece. Clearly. They ain’t building shit. Let me know your theory as to why this occured.
We have it. Natufians were replaced by anatolian farmers and caucasus like people. There were additional waves of steppe ancestry. Hell, you have R1b “ANE/steppe” lineages in pharoahs like Tutenkhamon and Akenaton and even as far south as Chad! That is siberian ancestry. You have Mycenaean ancestry in the Philistines.
The same thing occured in SE Asia. All the languages they speak like Thai and austronesian and austroasiatic and Hmong originated from a migration from south china. Those languages were almost all replaced in south china by the languages of north china (early chinese). The original people of SE Asia prior to the agricultural revolution were abos similar to indigenous aussies and andaman islanders. The North produces successive waves of ever smarter people who migrate south, take shit over and mix with the locals. This is definitely a world wide trend.
I think this is at least somewhat true. I hate writing in these little boxes— its hard to edit.