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Very questionable move made by Japan around 2 months before Operation Barbarossa. Japan signed a neutrality pact with the Soviet Union just shortly before Germany invaded the Soviet Union...

submitted by didyouknow to History 3.9 yearsJul 7, 2021 14:08:58 ago (+15/-0)     (archive.ph)

https://archive.ph/qEckH

Why would Japan do this? It makes no sense for them to make a pact like that. Surely they knew that Germany had plans to attack the Soviet Union. Even Stalin was warned multiple times that an attack from Germany was imminent based on Germany's troop movement. So how did not Japan know if they were Germany's ally?

Would it not have a better outcome for Japan, if they decided to attack the Soviet Union instead of the U.S? They could've attacked from Manchuria while Germany strikes from the west. They would've easily CRUSHED the communist regime because many people in the Soviet Union HATED the regime and were willing to help destroy it. On top of Germany and the Japanese war machine combined gives them a guaranteed win.

This would have also made it harder for the U.S to enter the war with troops.

You have to also remember that Japan helped the jews spread communism in Russia during the Russo-Japanese war. So the government of Japan, at least by that time had elements of corruption. The usual corruption.

https://www.voat.xyz/viewpost.php?postid=6067bb97bd73d


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[ - ] Teefinyomouf -1 points 3.9 yearsJul 7, 2021 21:25:44 ago (+0/-1)

Germany takes Russia. Japan takes China, Indochina, Philippines, and other islands. Japan can't do this if they're fighting Russia. Let the Germans do their own thing and live or die by Russia. Either way, Japan gets what it wants and doesn't ever need to argue with Germany over how to divide Russia. Seems pragmatic to me.

[ - ] 3Whuurs 0 points 3.8 yearsJul 13, 2021 21:54:49 ago (+0/-0)

If anything, while seeing the war coming, Japan had incentive to sign a pact with the soviets just to protect their sphere of influence trying to keep control of China and that whole region.

[ - ] beece 0 points 3.9 yearsJul 12, 2021 17:27:32 ago (+0/-0)*

You are incorrect, @didyouknow, in your mistaken believe that "They would've easily CRUSHED the communist regime ". In fact, just a few years earlier the USSR had giving the Japanese such an asskicking on the border that the entire Japanese military had been shocked by their loss.

Read Viktor Suvorov's book "The Chief Culprit: Stalin's Grand Design to Start World War II" and Kosters excellent work "Operation Snow" and your view will be more complete.

[ - ] didyouknow [op] 1 point 3.9 yearsJul 12, 2021 17:44:08 ago (+1/-0)

Even if they wouldn't easily crush the communist regime, my main point still stands. Japan gained nothing out of this neutrality pact because they ended up getting attacked by the Soviets in 1945 anyways. Also, why would they make a pact like that with the HQ of communism? Especially considering your ally has already planned to attack and DID attack just 2 months after this pact was made. Why not wait and attack with Germany instead of signing this pact with a bunch of parasitical vermins that will backstab you as soon as they find the opportunity? Did Japan and Germany have no communication with each other? What kind of allies were they even then?

If Germany could have had so much success against the Soviet Union initially, then how do you think the war would've resulted in if Japan had joined in?

But Japan didn't do that, instead, they decided to attack the U.S and look where that got them.

[ - ] beece 1 point 3.9 yearsJul 7, 2021 22:15:16 ago (+1/-0)

That's BULLSHIT. If you want to know the real story, I'd suggest you read these 3 books:

1st) "Freedom Betrayed" by ex-President Herbert Hoover. Hoover saw that the Roosevelt administration was strangely working hard to get American into an unnecessary war via USSR agents embedded into the US government. He didn’t understand what was occurring but he knew it was horrifically wrong and traitorous on many levels. It was literally Hoover’s life's work to work uncovering the traitorous actions he and his team found and to document it. He realized that his angry emotional angry first draft was overly wrought and chose to refine it. Nothing was left in his book that was not double sourced, and he had a full time team working on gathering facts, reworking and re-editing the manuscript for years. It is interesting that if you do a copy - paste to the internet on most of the duplicitous characters he roots out as traitors or involved in traitorous activities, they are jewish. If you copy-paste and source anyone who is supportive of a traitorous persons actions or ignores them in a historical work, they are almost always also jewish.

2nd) Operation Snow". Former President Hoover focused on the many US government officials betrayals that caused the war in Europe and China falling to the communists. He had suspected something like what occurred in Operation Snow had occurred, but the facts did not come out until 1995 after the USSR fell and we got first hand accounts and documentation from Former Soviet NKVD agents that the USSR had a Jewish agent high up in the Roosevelt administration which the Russians had directed to get the US into war with Japan. That traitor, Harry Dexter White (original name Weiss) with a few other Soviet agents working in the US Government (in the early 50's there were over 20,000 US government workers fired for being "security risks") was wildly successful in his efforts as he literally brought about Pearl Harbor and the millions of deaths and horrors that followed. He was able to get the US into the war, and most importantly, there was no significant blame directed towards him or to any other jews. To this day, few Americans know the truth, the rest believing the lies that jewish dominated media enforces.

3rd) "The Chief Culprit: Stalin's Grand Design to Start World War II" by Viktor Suvorov. One of only 2 USSR GRU agents who defected to the west, Suvorov, a jew himself, explains in minute and factual detail why Germany had to attack USSR as a defensive move. At the end you'll say: "Ahaahaha! THAT EXPLAINS IT!"

[ - ] Version6 2 points 3.9 yearsJul 7, 2021 22:19:27 ago (+2/-0)

Funny, I just bought all three of these books! No joke.

[ - ] beece 1 point 3.9 yearsJul 12, 2021 17:32:47 ago (+1/-0)

@Version6 Like to see your take on them once you finish them, maybe over on the books sub. I was surprised to read in Freedom Betrayed that Hoover declined President Roosevelts invitation to the capitol as he feared he'd be killed!

[ - ] Version6 0 points 3.8 yearsJul 13, 2021 12:31:56 ago (+0/-0)*

It'll be a little bit I will try and remember this. By the way, do you think they are best read in any particular order?

[ - ] beece 0 points 3.8 yearsJul 13, 2021 15:13:13 ago (+0/-0)*

@Version6 I'm unsure which order would be best, it's a bit like the 3 blind men describing an elephant. Probably read Suvorov's book first. They are all looking at different parts of the same timeline. In the Hoover book, I kept checking the internet of people he names "Is __________Jewish"? Turns out that an overwhelming double crapload are. During that time period someone was deleting that off many prominent people Wiki page, so at times it took extra digging. Yet Hoover never names the jew except once: when he quoted Ambassador to England Kennedy who told him that Chamberlain had said (and he apparently concurred) that the English jews wanted war with Germany.

That a group of organized jews caused WW2 is indisputable in my mind. Expand that to include that they caused China to go communist as well although I don't understand the exact "why". There is overwhelming factual evidence it is so on all counts. When you read the great historian John Tolands "Infamy", he clearly knows there had been some fucked up shinanigans going on, but was not able to totally nail it down. It wasn't until the secret USSR files came out, after Toland published, that the true facts came out. It's enough to make any patriot cry and similar bullshit occurred during WW1.

[ - ] 3Whuurs 1 point 3.9 yearsJul 12, 2021 12:21:29 ago (+1/-0)

Japan signed a neutrality pact because they invaded Mongolia in 1939 and the Soviets wanted to keep it as a buffer state, so they brought all their highest technology armaments out for a test run and literally whipped an entire Japanese army from the earth. And the Japanese decided they’d never fight the soviets again if they didn’t have to. Why do you think the Atom bombs couldn’t even make them surrender, but the mass movement of Red Army troops headed right for them later had them suddenly want to surrender to the Americans.

[ - ] didyouknow [op] 1 point 3.9 yearsJul 12, 2021 16:41:05 ago (+1/-0)

This does not make sense. If Japan was worried about losing the war by declaring war on a nation that might bring destruction to their home then a better question would be. Why did they attack Pearl Harbor over attacking the Soviet Union? The military power of the U.S was not a great secret by this time.

Germany alone was close to destroying the Soviet Union if Hitler and his Generals hadn't made several blunders. A Japanese attack from the east would have been the death sentence for the Soviet Union. I don't buy this nonsense that Japan feared attacking the Soviet Union, did they not pay attention to how well Germany was doing initially? Why wouldn't that motivate them to help out as an ALLY? This would've been a much better strategic move by Japan than attacking Pearl Harbour which only guaranteed them defeat in the war.

Also, the Soviet Union was an ally to the U.S, this would've been another way of getting at them and it's not like the U.S can declare war to help out the Soviet Union. That's a move FDR couldn't do. So by Japan attacking the U.S, they give in to what the U.S wanted, to enter the damn war with troops. So Japan attacking Pearl Harbour actually benefited the ''Allies''.


The whole thing stinks.

[ - ] 3Whuurs 0 points 3.8 yearsJul 13, 2021 21:23:53 ago (+0/-0)*

I’m not sure your opening statement makes sense.
But Japan getting absolutely fucking smoked in world record fashion, AND retreating, AND just happening to sign a neutrality pack immediately after, and never firing another bullet at the soviets again, AND surrendering right before the red army invaded, are all facts that strongly suggest you’re wrong imo.

As far as Japan attacking pearl harbour, wether there’s more reasons then this or not, 1 fact of that attack is that after exhausting every other option, if Japan didn’t respond militarily to the oil embargo the US had on them, they would have ran completely out of reserves and not been capable of any further military operations at all, in just a few more months.

As far as why they wouldn’t just join the war with Hitler and attack from the east, well I just answered that, they literally just tried a month before Hitler invaded Poland and got smoked worse then they ever had in their entire history.
If this isn’t significant enough to convince you they had incentive not to fuck with the soviets, then I don’t know what to tell you.

Also keep in mind. Japan had dominance in that entire area of the world and had its forces committed out there protecting their interests in a dozen countries. In fact 80% of all Japanese forces were deployed in China during WW2 and the US never faced more then 20% MAX of the Japanese military at any time.

As far as why the Japanese wouldn’t try to get back at America by attacking the soviets.....
Well the Soviets never did shit for the US except take it’s billions $$ and the regions they just softened up then abandoned to soviet invasion. So I’m not sure how they could think hitting the soviets would hurt America.
People (including Hitler) VASTLY underestimated how advanced and massive the red army was. Hitler’s initial success was owed almost entire to the element of surprise.

And personally, once you realize what the soviet state was, and how it had unlimited American money and armaments and was willing to send every living man woman and child into the meat grinder against Hitler, I’m really not so convinced (after the initial 3 months) that Hitler was as close to defeating the Soviets as we’re led to believe. The Soviets had entire provinces with their industrial bases left untouched by Nazis right from the start. Capturing Moscow would not have defeated Stalin. They had to kill the entire top soviet brass and dissolve the entire armed forces to win imo.
And even then, Russia is so big, that until they fully dissolved the entire red army, while still trying to fight from the south, there’s no guarantee Hitler might not have lost it again to an uprising or 2.


You asked why wouldn’t japan attack Russia to help Germany, well.... they just invaded a country on the Soviet borders to prepare for something like that, and got utterly destroyed in no time at all.

Think about this, even without the decade of full soviet economic industrialization under Stalin Japan was still so hesitant to attack russia under the Tsar that they played the espionage game and fomented the red revolution with millions from Jacob Schiff.

[ - ] beece 0 points 3.9 yearsJul 12, 2021 17:29:53 ago (+0/-0)

^^^This^^^

[ - ] account deleted by user 3 points 3.9 yearsJul 7, 2021 21:19:13 ago (+4/-1)*

account deleted by user

[ - ] Version6 1 point 3.9 yearsJul 7, 2021 22:18:03 ago (+1/-0)

Operation Snow: How a Soviet Mole in FDR's White House Triggered Pearl Harbor