×
Login Register an account
Top Submissions Explore Upgoat Search Random Subverse Random Post Colorize! Site Rules Donate
1

America/Australia both born by Britain but American names took a strange turn (e.g. Del City). Why?

submitted by paul_neri to ShowerThoughts 3.5 yearsNov 13, 2021 23:49:56 ago (+2/-1)     (ShowerThoughts)

More a thought while on the way to the supermarket and not in the shower, although it did rain, so I hope I can still post my thought here.



17 comments block


[ - ] localsal 3 points 3.5 yearsNov 14, 2021 00:44:12 ago (+3/-0)

America was never just British. Spanish, French, Dutch, etc from all over Europe - also struck claims for lands.

America was a land set about by those looking for a new life of freedom.

Australia started with a much smaller segment of only British subjects - prisoners.



[ - ] Joe_McCarthy 0 points 3.5 yearsNov 14, 2021 00:48:54 ago (+1/-1)

At the same time the non-Brits shouldn't be overstated. The white population at the time of the American Revolution was maybe 15% non-British descended. The largest being Germans in Pennsylvania probably. These other countries didn't leave a large settlement presence.

[ - ] localsal 1 point 3.5 yearsNov 14, 2021 01:13:24 ago (+1/-0)

A lot happened between 1620 and 1776.

The question wasn't concerning the fighting, or the relative populations, but the namings.

The Dutch held New Amsterdam and significant lands at the start, and names may or may not have been changed/influenced later, as one example.

Citizens of other countries could have petitioned the crown for lands, and then gave names as they wished when settled.

People in and around areas may have been taken local influences for names of children. Also, the natives had names for most places as well, and incorporating variations may have been done.

[ - ] Joe_McCarthy -1 points 3.5 yearsNov 14, 2021 01:19:43 ago (+0/-1)*

The Dutch had Australia, and New Zealand, for that matter. Australia was called New Holland. Tasmania was named after a Dutch explorer. But sure, the settlement of Oz was more uniformly British Isles descended and there was less contention there by European empires and thus less variety in place names.

[ - ] i_scream_trucks 2 points 3.5 yearsNov 14, 2021 01:58:04 ago (+2/-0)

the dutch had neither of those.

the dutch had mapped a fair part of australia and named it but did not land or claim it, the closest they got is a couple of shipwrecks off the coast and a couple of small expeditions, same with the spanish.

fun fact - there is evidence that the arab traders actually landed here somehwere in the 14-1500s and found literally nothing of value here so bailed and never came back.

fun fact -

[ - ] UncleDoug 1 point 3.5 yearsNov 14, 2021 02:32:27 ago (+1/-0)

The French landed before in La Perouse but didn't see value in it, just coons living in swamps surrounded by desert.

[ - ] Joe_McCarthy -1 points 3.5 yearsNov 14, 2021 02:35:15 ago (+0/-1)*

Had was probably a bad choice of words as there was no formal claim of sovereignty - but to say there was no sense in which Australia was thought to be Dutch territory is belied by this narrative:

https://www.australiaonthemap.org.au/dutch-claims-2/

Tasman was also the first European explorer to see New Zealand. No formal claim, again, but there is a sense in which a place belongs to a state by right of discovery.

I won't bicker here particularly though.

[ - ] i_scream_trucks 0 points 3.5 yearsNov 14, 2021 10:33:05 ago (+0/-0)

nothing to bicker about. they had no claim. they mapped the west and the north. the places they did map they named, as per most known conventions. its why lots of little islands in different places have different names sometimes.

either way the poms set up shop here first and here we are.

[ - ] paul_neri [op] -1 points 3.5 yearsNov 14, 2021 00:51:19 ago (+1/-2)*

fair enough. Want to take a punt on the etymology of these names? E: don't worry. I'm being lazy.

Devin, Easton, Chase, Colton,Cody, Jared, Jesse, Maverick, Nate, Seth, Bryson, Jase, Jace, Kayden

E: if someone in Aus called their kids by one of these names they'd be accused of watching too many American Sitcoms (maybe).

"Chase" Old French word Chacier meaning "to catch / seize"

"Colton" is of English origin and means "from the coal or dark town".

"Jase" is a nickname for Jason. The etymology of Jason can be traced to the Greek verb “iasthai” meaning “to heal” so Jason is known as “the healer”.

"Bryson" is of English origin and means "son of Brice" or "son of a nobleman." It derives from the English surname Bryson.

[ - ] Joe_McCarthy -1 points 3.5 yearsNov 14, 2021 01:04:05 ago (+0/-1)

Jesse and Jared are biblical names at first glance. We have a long history of naming boys after biblical figures. The Puritan heritage is partially the source there.

Looking it up Jase has some Anglo-Saxon connection. And Bryson certainly does as a Borderer name basically.

https://www.houseofnames.com/bryson-family-crest

While Kayden was coming up for me with various origins. One of them Irish.

The others don't come across to me as radically foreign to British norms really. Devin? There is a county Devon in England. Easton? There is a city in Pennsylvania with that name. If I had to guess it is probably of British origin.

Etc.

[ - ] Joe_McCarthy -1 points 3.5 yearsNov 14, 2021 01:07:52 ago (+0/-1)

There are several prominent Brits with the surname Chase.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chase_(name)

English was of course significantly influenced by French primarily through the Norman invasion.

[ - ] thebearfromstartrack4 1 point 3.5 yearsNov 14, 2021 00:44:49 ago (+2/-1)

Cause Australians are all convicts. SO, stupid mostly.

[ - ] paul_neri [op] -1 points 3.5 yearsNov 14, 2021 00:55:47 ago (+1/-2)

hurtful, bro.

[ - ] paul_neri [op] -1 points 3.5 yearsNov 14, 2021 01:15:19 ago (+1/-2)*

To try and salvage some legitimacy for my shower-thought, which doesn't seem to hold water, perhaps Americans have a propensity to shorten names and that's why they seem unusual to Australians (possibly only 1). So Americans would register their child's name as "Jesse", Australians would register the name as "Jessica"?

E: well maybe my hypothesis has some support in the name: Del City "Del" shortened from "Delphinia".Possibly if the same situation arose in Aus, the name would have been Delphinia City because, possibly Australians were still under the influence of the stuffy Englishmen who did things properly? Not a good example but Alice Springs wasn't shortened to Ali Springs.

[ - ] paul_neri [op] -1 points 3.5 yearsNov 14, 2021 00:23:55 ago (+1/-2)

Yes I could have researched Del City first but was thinking more about first names but found that shower thought didn't pan out (see below).

I think my thought had in mind American names like:

Hudson, Nolan, Easton, Colton, Maverick, Bryson, Jase, Jace, Kayden, and Sawyer.

Anyway...on the evidence it seems my thought should have stayed in the shower.



Common British first names

Oliver - 6,259.
Harry - 5,031.
George - 4,929.
Noah - 4,273.
Jack - 4,190


Common Aus first names:

Oliver
William
Noah
Jack

Common American first names

Liam
Noah
Oliver
Elijah

[ - ] Joe_McCarthy 0 points 3.5 yearsNov 14, 2021 00:34:38 ago (+1/-1)*

We have a lot of stuff named after Indians. But even in, say, Massachusetts, the counties are places like Suffolk or Norfolk corresponding to the parts of England the Puritans arrived from...

Of those surnames you cited the name Sawyer jumps out at me as a notable Puritan family name... and far better known in the character Tom Sawyer in Mark Twain's novels.

[ - ] Joe_McCarthy -1 points 3.5 yearsNov 14, 2021 00:02:13 ago (+1/-2)

Never given Del City any thought - but it is found in Indian territory and was named after some dude's daughter Delphinia.

https://www.cityofdelcity.com/about-del-city#:~:text=Our%20History,Epperly's%20daughter%20Delphinia.&text=In%20honor%20of%20Oklahoma's%20rich,Historical%20Society%2C%20and%20War%20Memorial.

Delphinia refers to an ancient Greek festival of Apollo.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delphinia

In terms of place names some things are obvious. Much of this joint used to be part of New Spain. Hence San Diego or Santa Fe. Some other places out west were settled by Germans, say. You can still hear German spoken in rural Ohio or Texas - and certainly Pennsylvania. With predictable place names like New Bremen.