Uses USD as currency... Payment processors can and probably will shut it down.
Probably shouldn't use crypto either, but that would be a more long term viable option that more people could access. Crypto use would improve the ability of people to stay away from (((banks))) but the governments would still stick their noses in everybody's business as they exchange coins for currency.
If gab feels their security is strong enough, they could issue tokens and make it a completely parallel economy, even taking like 0.1% of the prices for infrastructure, which would be cheaper than most cryptos.
The problem keeping it from going fully parallel economy is going to be transport/shipping, which will have to be funded by USD (or whatever the local currency is) to the external carrier. This limitation will keep most of the marketplace from being anything more than a hobby if eschewing government currencies. They still have to maintain a day job to pay for shipping, etc.
Could be solved if we got non-commercial stripper-wells to produce oil for fuel to power truckers working the parallel economy in every state in the u.s. / every province in canada.
The ability to cut out the middle men of the regimes isn't impossible, only improbable. It's also not without the real risk they shut it down.
"It needs much refining before it can be used in current engines. "
I have seen people build oil refineries in their back yard. Obviously no one was talking about running plain old oil.
"The buffers are also going to be single points of failure in the event (((they))) feel threatened."
The buffers are disposable by nature. But the purpose of a buffer should be two fold
1. leverage the state into a situation that it can't recover from, so taking down the buffer takes down the state too
2. provide time for a parallel economy to organize sufficiently that it no longer needs a go between.
Self-sufficient regions should be the goal, not isolated economic entities that can otherwise be laid siege to by the police, military, and political system.s
Self-sufficient regions is a good dream, but in reality the most likely thing will be a black market, dead-of-night dealing kind of system, and if the buffers go down, they will be very eager to give names of everyone they ever dealt with.
Are you willing to get jabbed to be a buffer?
As for making an entire economy self-sufficient, that hasn't been possible since 1870, or maybe even before. Once electricity and gas started to dominate, there is a reason why companies got big - scale matters.
Why are there only a small number of refineries in the entire world? Because scale can make things cheaper - and that leads to single points of failure.
Didn't the entire east coast of the USA have gas shut down last year because of one pipeline?
Trade is necessary in the world today - unless you go Uncle Ted and live in a cabin. Even Uncle Ted had to have money to mail his packages - nobody can escape the beast.
Added to that is the matter of value. Suppose I am a nurse. How much do I charge in the local currency? How does that translate to USD or government currency? What if my work is entirely online? How does my value get processed?
Go to a farmer's market - these "parallel economy" people are getting paid in government fiat.
It's a great dream, but unrealistic.
Who was the guy on Poal trying to get the NW USA as an enclave? How did that turn out?
Why are there only a small number of refineries in the entire world? Because scale can make things cheaper - and that leads to single points of failure.
Scale makes things cheaper, but the other consideration is what is the alternative to small DIY-style regional industry?
If the alternative is not preferable (tyranny), then eventually the pain makes it an even trade-off.
Didn't the entire east coast of the USA have gas shut down last year because of one pipeline?
Technicallity, especially if you're relying on pipelines instead of shipping by truck or freight.
Trade is necessary in the world today
Agreed, but globalism isn't.
Added to that is the matter of value. Suppose I am a nurse. How much do I charge in the local currency?
Thats for the nurse to decide. And thats the difference between a real market, and a centrally planned command economy. Prices, like water, find their own level.
How does that translate to USD or government currency? What if my work is entirely online? How does my value get processed?
All worthwhile questions.
Go to a farmer's market - these "parallel economy" people are getting paid in government fiat.
But it is concievable that there will come time when thats not necessarily the case anymore. Be it with gold, silver, decentralized crypto, market scrip, state/region backed currencies, etc.
It's a great dream, but unrealistic.
Everything which is far off and fraught with risk is by its nature unrealistic.
Who was the guy on Poal trying to get the NW USA as an enclave? How did that turn out?
One example does not an inevitability make.
it's inevitability that a lot of similar efforts will fail and thats even part of the eventual success. You have to have fialure to build the recognition and groundswell necessary for people to realize a broader movement must happen, without which future efforts would be doomed.
Failure isn't an option--it's absolutely essential to future success.
There are only two ways a parallel economy will work: 1) to devolve back to way lesser creature comforts, think the doctor on horseback treating people with homemade remedies in exchange for chickens. The Amish are a good example of this. A great community, and left alone, but giving up all of the modern conveniences, dealing with outsiders in fiat currencies, and with the backing and acceptance by the local governments.
The Amish don't need to use fiat currencies, but do for trade. They could live completely enclosed, growing their own food for human and cattle, making their own materials for building, and mostly handling their own problems, such as medical and dental.
2) total civilization collapse. This will return everyone to the stone age and allow us to rebuild in our own way.
Without government acceptance, any breakaway region will be quashed rapidly. The Seattle blm shithole was accepted until it imploded LOL.
At best, a hybrid is the only answer without government acceptance, and that will be extremely fragile and waiting for government crackdown.
I would love to see a working parallel economy, but it will never be (((allowed))) to happen on a large scale to compete with the established players.
[ + ] localsal
[ - ] localsal 2 points 3.2 yearsFeb 17, 2022 03:52:27 ago (+2/-0)
Uses USD as currency... Payment processors can and probably will shut it down.
Probably shouldn't use crypto either, but that would be a more long term viable option that more people could access. Crypto use would improve the ability of people to stay away from (((banks))) but the governments would still stick their noses in everybody's business as they exchange coins for currency.
If gab feels their security is strong enough, they could issue tokens and make it a completely parallel economy, even taking like 0.1% of the prices for infrastructure, which would be cheaper than most cryptos.
The problem keeping it from going fully parallel economy is going to be transport/shipping, which will have to be funded by USD (or whatever the local currency is) to the external carrier. This limitation will keep most of the marketplace from being anything more than a hobby if eschewing government currencies. They still have to maintain a day job to pay for shipping, etc.
[ + ] masuji
[ - ] masuji 0 points 3.2 yearsFeb 17, 2022 12:51:47 ago (+0/-0)
The ability to cut out the middle men of the regimes isn't impossible, only improbable.
It's also not without the real risk they shut it down.
[ + ] localsal
[ - ] localsal 0 points 3.2 yearsFeb 17, 2022 18:51:43 ago (+0/-0)
It needs much refining before it can be used in current engines.
The only way a parallel economy can exist is if there is a buffer created that interacts between both.
The SR71 titanium supplier is a good example - a European buyer got the Soviet titanium and then sold it to the US front company for the CIA.
The buffers are also going to be single points of failure in the event (((they))) feel threatened.
[ + ] masuji
[ - ] masuji 0 points 3.2 yearsFeb 18, 2022 18:03:15 ago (+0/-0)
I have seen people build oil refineries in their back yard. Obviously no one was talking about running plain old oil.
"The buffers are also going to be single points of failure in the event (((they))) feel threatened."
The buffers are disposable by nature. But the purpose of a buffer should be two fold
1. leverage the state into a situation that it can't recover from, so taking down the buffer takes down the state too
2. provide time for a parallel economy to organize sufficiently that it no longer needs a go between.
Self-sufficient regions should be the goal, not isolated economic entities that can otherwise be laid siege to by the police, military, and political system.s
[ + ] localsal
[ - ] localsal 0 points 3.2 yearsFeb 18, 2022 21:02:08 ago (+0/-0)
Are you willing to get jabbed to be a buffer?
As for making an entire economy self-sufficient, that hasn't been possible since 1870, or maybe even before. Once electricity and gas started to dominate, there is a reason why companies got big - scale matters.
Why are there only a small number of refineries in the entire world? Because scale can make things cheaper - and that leads to single points of failure.
Didn't the entire east coast of the USA have gas shut down last year because of one pipeline?
Trade is necessary in the world today - unless you go Uncle Ted and live in a cabin. Even Uncle Ted had to have money to mail his packages - nobody can escape the beast.
Added to that is the matter of value. Suppose I am a nurse. How much do I charge in the local currency? How does that translate to USD or government currency? What if my work is entirely online? How does my value get processed?
Go to a farmer's market - these "parallel economy" people are getting paid in government fiat.
It's a great dream, but unrealistic.
Who was the guy on Poal trying to get the NW USA as an enclave? How did that turn out?
[ + ] masuji
[ - ] masuji 0 points 3.2 yearsFeb 24, 2022 17:29:04 ago (+0/-0)
Scale makes things cheaper, but the other consideration is what is the alternative to small DIY-style regional industry?
If the alternative is not preferable (tyranny), then eventually the pain makes it an even trade-off.
Technicallity, especially if you're relying on pipelines instead of shipping by truck or freight.
Agreed, but globalism isn't.
Thats for the nurse to decide. And thats the difference between a real market, and a centrally planned command economy. Prices, like water, find their own level.
All worthwhile questions.
But it is concievable that there will come time when thats not necessarily the case anymore.
Be it with gold, silver, decentralized crypto, market scrip, state/region backed currencies, etc.
Everything which is far off and fraught with risk is by its nature unrealistic.
One example does not an inevitability make.
it's inevitability that a lot of similar efforts will fail and thats even part of the eventual success. You have to have fialure to build the recognition and groundswell necessary for people to realize a broader movement must happen, without which future efforts would be doomed.
Failure isn't an option--it's absolutely essential to future success.
[ + ] localsal
[ - ] localsal 0 points 3.2 yearsFeb 24, 2022 19:55:00 ago (+0/-0)
1) to devolve back to way lesser creature comforts, think the doctor on horseback treating people with homemade remedies in exchange for chickens. The Amish are a good example of this. A great community, and left alone, but giving up all of the modern conveniences, dealing with outsiders in fiat currencies, and with the backing and acceptance by the local governments.
The Amish don't need to use fiat currencies, but do for trade. They could live completely enclosed, growing their own food for human and cattle, making their own materials for building, and mostly handling their own problems, such as medical and dental.
2) total civilization collapse. This will return everyone to the stone age and allow us to rebuild in our own way.
Without government acceptance, any breakaway region will be quashed rapidly. The Seattle blm shithole was accepted until it imploded LOL.
At best, a hybrid is the only answer without government acceptance, and that will be extremely fragile and waiting for government crackdown.
I would love to see a working parallel economy, but it will never be (((allowed))) to happen on a large scale to compete with the established players.
[ + ] masuji
[ - ] masuji 0 points 3.2 yearsFeb 24, 2022 19:57:21 ago (+0/-0)
But before you do, ask, where would you start if it were?
[ + ] localsal
[ - ] localsal 0 points 3.2 yearsFeb 24, 2022 19:58:58 ago (+0/-0)
There is only one solution.
[ + ] paul_neri
[ - ] paul_neri 1 point 3.2 yearsFeb 17, 2022 03:41:16 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] paul_neri
[ - ] paul_neri -1 points 3.2 yearsFeb 17, 2022 03:39:06 ago (+0/-1)