'Just barter and stop using money, bro!' Yeah, the gas station owner will let me mow his lawn in exchange for a tank of gas, right? The whole 'barter' thing is fuckin retarded. 'Just live in a cave, and barter berries for rabbit pelts, bro!'
No, just annoyed that this 'barter' shit is thought to be practicable in the modern world. In Zimbabwe, sure. In a Amish community where you KNOW EVERYONE, sure. Otherwise, it's nonsense in 99% of cases.
Do you know why there's the guy with the clipboard (or equivalent list-making method) at the start of every Amish community barn-raising? he keeps track of all the men who showed up to help out.
Do you know what happens to the guys who never show up to the raising projects when they need a barn raised? Nobody comes to help them.
The clipboard makes sure that reciprocity remains the rule of the community, you can choose not to help out your neighbor, but the price is that when you need help, that neighbor is fully within their rights to refuse, and very likely to do so (unless you can offer them something that would make them willing to aid you).
Pure bartering comes with hard times, and we haven’t gotten there yet. When Russia briefly collapsed, Venezuela, Zimbabwe, Croatia.. the money became toilet paper and the economy became a barter system. If you had nothing to trade, then you had to suck a dick. I’ve been amassing ammo, disposable lighters and junk silver for 15 years, because when the dollar is no longer the world reserve currency and this facade collapses, I’m not sucking any dicks.
My father-in-law is an electrician. When he does private work for a plumber, or a roofer, AC guy, whatever, they barter. He doesn’t charge. They exchange skill sets off the books. Tradesmen run an underground barter network. It’s been great for me. Whenever my house needs anything, my father-in-law opens his book and there are always people that owe him ‘favors’. They come do the work, no permits-no charge. And they come right away, even putting off paying customers.
I walked into a bakery to buy a pie to take to Thanksgiving, the cashier/owner recognized me because I had had coffee there with my father-in-law…. Free pie. Because my father-in-law did free electrical work in exchange for baked goods. The barter economy is all around you, you just can’t access it.
If you have no skills, and you have no items that anyone would need to survive; stock up on knee pads while you can still get them.
This is still happening among skilled men regardless of OP saying it doesn't. It can be simple shit like fixing a running toilet or leaky faucet. Both are worth at least a free pie. It's not the time spent on the job, it's knowing what's necessary to complete it.
I have NEVER bartered, and no one has ever offered. I bid the job, do the job, they pay me.
IT'S BECAUSE YOU'RE A JEW FAGGOT!
ask the mechanic what you can trade for the work. Guess what his answer will be..
He said he wanted his office painted. Been years and he never got around to it. He said some asshole keeps coming into the shop talking about how shitty bartering is and finally I came around and asked. He repaired my vehicle and I painted his office. Then we laughed about the jew faggot anus_expander who has a butt fetish that he likes to think is normal and political.
Perhaps you’re not in rural Texas. Yes, my father-in-law is white as hell, or I wouldn’t have married his daughter. Try offering. There is a trust situation that has to occur before someone will give you service for free and then expect payment later. My father-in-law doesn’t know these tradesmen, he meets them on jobsites and they exchange cards. I just got my carb tuned on a 1965 427. Paid. My father-in-law found out and said that guy owed him on a service trade. FIL called the guy, I got a check in the mail. You can use it outside of your specific trade, you just have to offer and build your network. If you have a tattoo on your face or look like a crack head, no one will bite. You also have to work for yourself. Offer your work for free, and they will always deal.
I’m a professional cartoon animator… Cartoons aren’t going to keep anyone from starving. I can’t trade shit. I’m fortunate to be associated with a shrewd tradesman.
I cannot think of a single reason to barter my services with anyone. I buy what I need. If my neighbor, a graphic designer, wants me to rewire his breaker panel, what can he offer in return for the same value? Nothing. Unless I can spend the weekend with his hot little wife, fuck yes.
I have a machine shop. This summer, someone who produces and sells firewood needed something machined. When it came to payment he asked if i wanted money or some firewood. Unfortunately I don't use wood to heat my place yet, so i had to take the money. Bartering is much more common place than you think.
I forgot about my firewood. I bought 20 acres that was infected with oak wilt. I’ve cut down enough dead oaks to make a pile the size of a two car garage. A guy in my area is a scout master and cooks briskets to sell to raise scout funds. Once a year he brings 20 scouts and a splitter and they split wood all day. He leaves me a big pile of split wood, He takes what he needs to make scout briskets, and I get a free brisket every month. No money is exchanged. The scout master put out the word and I get strangers at my gate regularly that want to trade.
Again, that is a UNIQUE situation. Most men today are video/porn addicted soibois that can barely work a can opener. Our grandfathers were MUCH more suited to bartering their skills. And WOMEN??? Don't make me laugh. Modern women can't sew or cook, they have nothing to offer but pussy.
You’re too fucking dumb or meek to recognize a barter situation. It sounds like your an electrician. Everyone needs electricity. Try offering your knowledge/skills in exchange for services. Your problem, I think, is that you have a look or an attitude that makes people not trust you’ll hold up your end. You got a ponytail and tats on your neck? Are you gaunt like a meth head? Do you drive a shitbox? Are you not white?
I look 'normal', and people fuckin love me, faguette. Why would I barter when I can just get paid CASH to buy whatever I want? Go soak your nuts in acid.
If you never tried to barter, then your retarded post that started this thread was just to get attention. Well, you got my attention, and you’re a fucking retard.
Give me one good reason to barter, when I can get paid cash. Do you really think I'm gonna stand there for an hour, haggling with someone, tryin to figure out what we can trade? Are you REALLY that fuckin stupid? You must be a nigger, or a roastie, or both. Barter deez nuts.
He has no clue how bartering works and hasn't tried yet. I know he doesn't barter because he makes the first timer noob mistake; he's not offering anything unique. He's offering pretty much the same thing an employee offers, but wants special payment.
If I had someone offer me eggs for some of my goods I wouldn't offer them much, as I already have eggs from my own efforts. Maybe if OP brought some ostrich eggs? That's a gimmick though, I'd be easier to buy with ammo tbh.
Yeah, for example I could program a computer for the gorcery store owner who would give me ten pounds of chicken which I could give to the plumber to fix the bathroom at the gas station where I would then be able to fill my car three times. Or I could just use money.
Being a former dealer myself, I can tell you that this almost NEVER happens. They want CASH. And if you offer a trade, you might get dope for 1/10th of the value of that gun. Stupid shit. Crackheads trade TVs for a dime bag, but mostly are turned down by corner boys. CASH IS KING, BABY!!
--The next garage sale you are at, try 'bartering' with the seller for ANYTHING, they will laugh at you. If it were practical, it would be commonplace.
You're 40% right, but fiat currency controlled by private or governmental groups is even worse.
I haven't tried trading eggs and milk directly for gasoline yet, maybe I could I stead set up a vendoring deal with them? I bring them fresh eggs and milk each day and I can get a few gallons in exchange? Who knows, sounds like a good experiment.
Otherwise in this "bartering for gas" scenario I could suggest the best of both worlds; I sell my excess goods for a little bit of fiat currency, then I trade the dead presidents for goods I can't create myself. This method is what I currently use, been ok for over a year now. I have only run out of herbal medicines, that's where I need ramp up production.
You still have a collectionist mentality. You need those shekels to make sure you feel safe. Those shekels will never make you safe. Get yourself some land and learn how damn well that land will feed you, even if all you do is wander it! If you want value for your goods though, they need to be difficult to obtain, require a specialized process to prepare, or some other type of challenge that brings rarity to the product.
Most people have no goods or services to trade for anything. 'I can wash your car!'---'I just washed it'. Etc etc. It's highly impractical for almost every transaction. Plus, the value of the transaction will always depend on the desperation of one party.
'My children haven't eaten in 3 days, I will clean your house for food!'---'No, you will suck my cock, then I will fuck all of your holes, then I MIGHT feed your children, whore.' Etc etc etc.
[ - ] Her0n 1 point 2.4 yearsDec 3, 2022 10:56:21 ago (+1/-0)
Ok...are you agreeing that you need to blame the barter system less now that you've realized the issue is that most people today offer nothing but labor to the offering table?
Barter system is legal, hard to tax. It's discouraged because shop keeps already registered taxes on the income of goods into the store. If those goods aren't destroyed or sold normally, when does the US gov get it's cut?
A problem comes in when taxes are to be collected.
Didnt work in the mountains. Everything is cash. Even the bar that used to give you credit? Cash. Dont even think about pulling out those faggy little gold or silver bars either. Cash and only cash.
Having the tubes and tobacco stored saved our asses when shtf. And yes we only accepted cash.
Again we don't disagree that barter is difficult, I don't know how many ways I need to say that for it to sink into your skull, but there's another attempt for you. Barter system is difficult because no one brings anything worth bartering for to the table.
I'll see if the local gas station will accept goods from me in return for gas from their station. Any guidelines or expectations you have of me in this exchange?
They won't barter for goods. You'll bring in $50 worth of shit for the shelves, get a check/cash for $50, and give the $50 back for fuel. It's not bartering because of the middleman (bank check or CC purchase at pump) but it is still in the spirit of bartering. It's bartering with added inconvenience of paperwork.
No no, you misunderstood me. It's bartering in my example even if it's not "bartering" to someone with a dictionary. I give you X and you give me Y is imo the same thing as I sell you X for $1 and I buy Y off you with the same $1. By all means, try and see what happens.
If jews worked we would all be doing it. But instead they are all bankers and grifters buying up all the land for the fake jew paper they created. If we used barter the jew would be in distress because they have nothing to barter with. They are allergic to work. They want loopholes. oy yey jew faggot
What about in Canada where the government literally gave all their national reserves of precious metals and gemstones to the international bankers? What about the fact that there are powerful people in America's government planning on doing the exact same thing with their national reserves (it's in there, in the same document leaks that talk about it as a step in the plan of creating that digital currency system)?
Of course barter works, money just works better. Money reduces goods and services to a value, which is something everyone wants.
But in the absence of money barter works fine. My grandfather lived through the depression. He'd talk about how there was no money. And not in the sense of having spent your paycheck on a new pair of shoes. There was literally no money. But they got by, and did so by trading goods and services AKA bartering.
LOL, you are comparing life 100 years ago with today. Talk about moronic. Back then most adults had practical skills, unlike today where most do not. ALL women knew how to cook and sew. Almost all men could work with tools.
I guess you also advise job-seekers to go to the nearest construction site/store/office building, and ask the boss for a job. "Just be CONFIDENT and have a firm handshake, bro!"
In regular society, of course. However, I think a person in your position would find himself a step or two from the bottom of the SHTF-bartering-pyramid. You're basically day labor like any other beaner to the producers in a SHTF scenario.
Nigger, I can build a house from the ground up, plumbing and electrical included. I can take a truck apart, and rebuild it better than new. I can sail a boat, play many instruments, etc etc. I aint worried about a SHTF event.
And that's fine, but if you can't produce the things needed to live on your sailboat with your trumpet, you are going to be day-laboring for someone who can.
I could have broken the news to you a little nicer the first time, I suppose.
If I missed the part where you own an isolated cabin in the woods and plan to never need other humans, then forget I said anything.
"Money" is a piece of paper that everyone agrees is worth a generally similar amount and can readily by transferred for goods and services. Otherwise known as fiat When you spend "money", you are literally bartering for a piece of paper.
That reason was that you could exchange the paper for the amount of some bartered commodity (such as some precious metals or gems or another item which has common utility retains its value and which is easily measured and transported, the most famous such item was salt) which was being kept in storage somewhere which accepts the exchange of paper for it's listed goods (banks).
We had a barter system, but then some commodities became so universally valued as a medium of exchange that it was expected that someone would be willing to accept that specific kind of goods in all cases (something like salt or gold or diamonds), being so ubiquitously reliable this resource was kept in reserve by all people.
Having these reserves in everyone's private possession caused all sorts of problems, also there were issues with having ready access to one's reserves, people trying to scam each other with imitations of the genuine article that resembled it, but could be used in the ways that gave the item it's value (fool's gold, white sand instead of salt, phony diamonds), also thieves who threatened the safety of everyone as an arms race grew between ordinary folks and the robbers, and public trust was being destroyed as the people warred amongst themselves.
For these and other reasons, it was decided that certain individuals would be in charge of holding the universally exchanged resources, these individuals would be able to distribute the resource from their storage, they would be experts who could verify whether the resources were real or fakes, and everyone knew that whatever amount someone had of that resource in their ownership, it was being kept in that place with it's high level of security, these locations did little else but store the items, verify the items authenticity against frauds, and guard their stores against thieves, they would also carefully measure the amount of the stored resources into specific units, cutting the gems into specific sized and shaped stones, melting down and forging the metals into coins containing a specific amount of the material, or packing the salt into bags or blocks of a specific weight and sealing them up tight to prevent any of it from spilling out (this standardization of units made everything else these places were doing with the resources a lot easier as well).
The people would retrieve some share of the stores by exchanging some contract they had signed with the storehouse operators, it said that there was an amount of the item which was deposited in the place, and that they could retrieve it by displaying the receipt (receipts you get at stores are contracts between you and the store which work the same way, a proof of consent to an interaction showing how you agreed to the exchange of your money for their items or service).
Later on the process of redeeming these receipts for the resource were streamlined:
- Since people almost never wanted to just take out all their stored commodity at once, notes were made for specific amounts which were most commonly requested, along with smaller amounts from which any amount could be added up.
- Since people knew the notes were as good as the items they could be exchanged for, some started to come back with the contracts of someone else requesting a part of the resources they signatory had deposited, the storehouses made such interactions valid by simply removing the name of the person who deposited the resource from the receipts and giving the amount listed on the papers to whoever it was that brought them in.
So we got paper money that way, we also got the warehouses of storage, which we called "banks", the paper money was notes from the bank indicating the amount of a resource they could be exchanged for (hence the term "banknotes"), and we got the standard uniform units of the resources which the banks put on the notes for ease of redemption processing, for metals of value these are what we know as "coins".
So ultimately the system of paper money is the barter system, just more evolved and streamlined.
Kind of like how any sort of ideology is the same as no ideology at all, because like minds eventually came together and gave their shared opinions a name, kind of like how government is the same as a pure anarchy, eventually individuals started working together for common interests and delegating themselves to different tasks within the group.
This is something very basic which people fail to realize: that complex things come out of simple things, centralized things out of decentralized things, religion comes out of the lack of it, government comes from the private sector of stateless individuals, and order emerges out of chaos, all this is always inevitable.
Individualists and anarchists merely want to hit the reset button on everything, all that exists emerged organically out of the kind of state of being these types revere, they emerged because of everyone looking out for themselves, and eventually finding the best way to get what they wanted with what they had, the circumstances naturally produce the kind of systems that come out of them, simply due to people making the best "plays" they can (taking the actions that most favor themselves), as for those who make suboptimal decisions for their circumstances, they tend to be weeded out with time (and luck can only carry them so far), they don't matter in the grand scheme of things.
If the anarcho capitalists get their way, we will see the return to the feudal era as we see the rise of warring kingdoms, the lack of authority leads to even greater authoritarianism.
Individualism creates collectivism without the restrictions which hold the collectives back from using any means to ensure the most absolute conformity within their ranks, and engaging in a no-holds barred war of dogmas, meaning an individualist society results in ultra-orthodoxy, organized groups with centralized leadership, strict dogmas, and structured hierarchies have more power than some disorganized individuals could ever wield, if individualists win it will be their doom soon after, all they would do is shatter societies into many smaller factions who can now fight for dominance without worrying about the larger universal powers that kept them all in line.
You’re god damned right. The first order of business after communism takes root is to secure their borders. That’s not to keep people out, it’s to keep their subjects in.
Implicit in living the revolutionary lifestyle is learning to get by on as little money as possible. You can be homeless. You can ride a bike. You can walk. The drawbacks to not having a vehicle is it makes you less able to blend into the landscape, move quickly, or hide stuff as you go. But these are not insurmountable issues. In the future gas prices may even make driving cars far less common.
Barter works great when it's an option.... it's just not always an option.
Not everyone wants what I have to offer. Encounter some who does (I usually have honey, wax, other products from bees), and I tend to have no issue with working out a zero money transaction. This is actually becoming more common, as in more people are asking ME if I'm open to trades... used to be just me asking if they'd be interested in either a partial or complete trade.
The bonus to barter is that I feel like I'm getting more than I'm giving. By that I mean that in the process of turning honey into money, and then using that money to buy whatever item, I have to put much more effort and am out more honey. Direct trade, cutting out the middle-men, feels like getting a 20% discount AND not wasting a ton of my time.
Best trade I've done this year, fresh butchered beef and pork for a 5 gallon bucket of honey.
[ + ] AntiPostmodernist
[ - ] AntiPostmodernist 0 points 2.4 yearsDec 3, 2022 09:52:37 ago (+1/-1)
[ + ] Anus_Expander
[ - ] Anus_Expander [op] 2 points 2.4 yearsDec 3, 2022 11:00:25 ago (+2/-0)
[ + ] SumerBreeze
[ - ] SumerBreeze 1 point 2.4 yearsDec 3, 2022 11:55:22 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] AntiPostmodernist
[ - ] AntiPostmodernist 0 points 2.4 yearsDec 4, 2022 13:42:47 ago (+0/-0)
Do you know what happens to the guys who never show up to the raising projects when they need a barn raised? Nobody comes to help them.
The clipboard makes sure that reciprocity remains the rule of the community, you can choose not to help out your neighbor, but the price is that when you need help, that neighbor is fully within their rights to refuse, and very likely to do so (unless you can offer them something that would make them willing to aid you).
[ + ] FacelessOne
[ - ] FacelessOne 4 points 2.4 yearsDec 3, 2022 09:54:02 ago (+4/-0)
[ + ] Her0n
[ - ] Her0n 1 point 2.4 yearsDec 3, 2022 10:44:26 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] Anus_Expander
[ - ] Anus_Expander [op] 0 points 2.4 yearsDec 3, 2022 10:58:41 ago (+1/-1)
[ + ] Deleted
[ - ] deleted 0 points 2.4 yearsDec 4, 2022 17:38:00 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Deleted
[ - ] deleted 4 points 2.4 yearsDec 3, 2022 09:57:45 ago (+5/-1)
[ + ] Anus_Expander
[ - ] Anus_Expander [op] 3 points 2.4 yearsDec 3, 2022 10:58:16 ago (+4/-1)
[ + ] Monica
[ - ] Monica 0 points 2.4 yearsDec 3, 2022 13:04:11 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Anus_Expander
[ - ] Anus_Expander [op] 0 points 2.4 yearsDec 3, 2022 17:52:11 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] PearofAnguishJuniorManager
[ - ] PearofAnguishJuniorManager 2 points 2.4 yearsDec 3, 2022 10:10:06 ago (+2/-0)*
My father-in-law is an electrician. When he does private work for a plumber, or a roofer, AC guy, whatever, they barter. He doesn’t charge. They exchange skill sets off the books. Tradesmen run an underground barter network. It’s been great for me. Whenever my house needs anything, my father-in-law opens his book and there are always people that owe him ‘favors’. They come do the work, no permits-no charge. And they come right away, even putting off paying customers.
I walked into a bakery to buy a pie to take to Thanksgiving, the cashier/owner recognized me because I had had coffee there with my father-in-law…. Free pie. Because my father-in-law did free electrical work in exchange for baked goods. The barter economy is all around you, you just can’t access it.
If you have no skills, and you have no items that anyone would need to survive; stock up on knee pads while you can still get them.
[ + ] ruck_feddit
[ - ] ruck_feddit 2 points 2.4 yearsDec 3, 2022 12:50:56 ago (+2/-0)
[ + ] Monica
[ - ] Monica 1 point 2.4 yearsDec 3, 2022 13:39:07 ago (+1/-0)
It happens more than jew op would want people to think.
[ + ] Anus_Expander
[ - ] Anus_Expander [op] 1 point 2.4 yearsDec 3, 2022 10:57:51 ago (+2/-1)
Yours is a unique situation, because your FIL has known these people for a long time (I'm guessing they are White).
Next time you take your car to the shop, ask the mechanic what you can trade for the work. Guess what his answer will be..
[ + ] Monica
[ - ] Monica 2 points 2.4 yearsDec 3, 2022 13:36:14 ago (+2/-0)
IT'S BECAUSE YOU'RE A JEW FAGGOT!
He said he wanted his office painted. Been years and he never got around to it. He said some asshole keeps coming into the shop talking about how shitty bartering is and finally I came around and asked. He repaired my vehicle and I painted his office. Then we laughed about the jew faggot anus_expander who has a butt fetish that he likes to think is normal and political.
[ + ] Anus_Expander
[ - ] Anus_Expander [op] 0 points 2.4 yearsDec 3, 2022 17:50:19 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] PearofAnguishJuniorManager
[ - ] PearofAnguishJuniorManager 1 point 2.4 yearsDec 3, 2022 14:12:34 ago (+1/-0)*
I’m a professional cartoon animator… Cartoons aren’t going to keep anyone from starving. I can’t trade shit. I’m fortunate to be associated with a shrewd tradesman.
[ + ] Anus_Expander
[ - ] Anus_Expander [op] 0 points 2.4 yearsDec 3, 2022 17:48:35 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] germ22
[ - ] germ22 0 points 2.4 yearsDec 3, 2022 14:14:43 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] PearofAnguishJuniorManager
[ - ] PearofAnguishJuniorManager 1 point 2.4 yearsDec 3, 2022 14:41:12 ago (+1/-0)*
[ + ] Anus_Expander
[ - ] Anus_Expander [op] 0 points 2.4 yearsDec 3, 2022 17:44:50 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] PearofAnguishJuniorManager
[ - ] PearofAnguishJuniorManager 0 points 2.4 yearsDec 3, 2022 20:09:57 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Anus_Expander
[ - ] Anus_Expander [op] 0 points 2.4 yearsDec 4, 2022 06:27:21 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] PearofAnguishJuniorManager
[ - ] PearofAnguishJuniorManager 0 points 2.4 yearsDec 4, 2022 13:58:18 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Anus_Expander
[ - ] Anus_Expander [op] 0 points 2.4 yearsDec 4, 2022 15:31:04 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] PearofAnguishJuniorManager
[ - ] PearofAnguishJuniorManager 0 points 2.4 yearsDec 4, 2022 16:28:44 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Anus_Expander
[ - ] Anus_Expander [op] 0 points 2.4 yearsDec 4, 2022 18:01:26 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Deleted
[ - ] deleted 3 points 2.4 yearsDec 3, 2022 10:32:59 ago (+3/-0)
[ + ] Her0n
[ - ] Her0n 2 points 2.4 yearsDec 3, 2022 10:50:39 ago (+2/-0)
He has no clue how bartering works and hasn't tried yet. I know he doesn't barter because he makes the first timer noob mistake; he's not offering anything unique. He's offering pretty much the same thing an employee offers, but wants special payment.
If I had someone offer me eggs for some of my goods I wouldn't offer them much, as I already have eggs from my own efforts. Maybe if OP brought some ostrich eggs? That's a gimmick though, I'd be easier to buy with ammo tbh.
[ + ] noonefromnowhere
[ - ] noonefromnowhere 1 point 2.4 yearsDec 3, 2022 10:47:24 ago (+2/-1)
[ + ] Deleted
[ - ] deleted 0 points 2.4 yearsDec 3, 2022 17:24:35 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Anus_Expander
[ - ] Anus_Expander [op] 1 point 2.4 yearsDec 3, 2022 10:54:35 ago (+2/-1)
--The next garage sale you are at, try 'bartering' with the seller for ANYTHING, they will laugh at you. If it were practical, it would be commonplace.
[ + ] Deleted
[ - ] deleted 1 point 2.4 yearsDec 3, 2022 14:08:48 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] Anus_Expander
[ - ] Anus_Expander [op] 0 points 2.4 yearsDec 3, 2022 17:49:41 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Deleted
[ - ] deleted 0 points 2.4 yearsDec 4, 2022 14:31:10 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Deleted
[ - ] deleted 0 points 2.4 yearsDec 3, 2022 17:15:18 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Her0n
[ - ] Her0n 3 points 2.4 yearsDec 3, 2022 10:43:50 ago (+3/-0)*
I haven't tried trading eggs and milk directly for gasoline yet, maybe I could I stead set up a vendoring deal with them? I bring them fresh eggs and milk each day and I can get a few gallons in exchange? Who knows, sounds like a good experiment.
Otherwise in this "bartering for gas" scenario I could suggest the best of both worlds; I sell my excess goods for a little bit of fiat currency, then I trade the dead presidents for goods I can't create myself. This method is what I currently use, been ok for over a year now. I have only run out of herbal medicines, that's where I need ramp up production.
You still have a collectionist mentality. You need those shekels to make sure you feel safe. Those shekels will never make you safe. Get yourself some land and learn how damn well that land will feed you, even if all you do is wander it! If you want value for your goods though, they need to be difficult to obtain, require a specialized process to prepare, or some other type of challenge that brings rarity to the product.
[ + ] Anus_Expander
[ - ] Anus_Expander [op] 0 points 2.4 yearsDec 3, 2022 10:50:40 ago (+1/-1)
'My children haven't eaten in 3 days, I will clean your house for food!'---'No, you will suck my cock, then I will fuck all of your holes, then I MIGHT feed your children, whore.' Etc etc etc.
[ + ] Her0n
[ - ] Her0n 1 point 2.4 yearsDec 3, 2022 10:56:21 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] Anus_Expander
[ - ] Anus_Expander [op] 2 points 2.4 yearsDec 3, 2022 11:01:37 ago (+2/-0)
[ + ] Her0n
[ - ] Her0n 2 points 2.4 yearsDec 3, 2022 11:07:12 ago (+2/-0)
Barter system is legal, hard to tax. It's discouraged because shop keeps already registered taxes on the income of goods into the store. If those goods aren't destroyed or sold normally, when does the US gov get it's cut?
A problem comes in when taxes are to be collected.
[ + ] Anus_Expander
[ - ] Anus_Expander [op] 0 points 2.4 yearsDec 3, 2022 11:43:32 ago (+1/-1)
--TRY IT for the next week, see how far you get.
[ + ] SumerBreeze
[ - ] SumerBreeze 1 point 2.4 yearsDec 3, 2022 11:54:40 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] Gowithit
[ - ] Gowithit 0 points 2.4 yearsDec 3, 2022 15:27:18 ago (+0/-0)
Having the tubes and tobacco stored saved our asses when shtf. And yes we only accepted cash.
[ + ] Her0n
[ - ] Her0n 0 points 2.4 yearsDec 3, 2022 12:10:55 ago (+0/-0)
I'll see if the local gas station will accept goods from me in return for gas from their station. Any guidelines or expectations you have of me in this exchange?
[ + ] ruck_feddit
[ - ] ruck_feddit 0 points 2.4 yearsDec 3, 2022 12:47:56 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Her0n
[ - ] Her0n 0 points 2.4 yearsDec 3, 2022 17:25:00 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] ruck_feddit
[ - ] ruck_feddit 0 points 2.4 yearsDec 3, 2022 17:49:10 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Monica
[ - ] Monica 0 points 2.4 yearsDec 3, 2022 13:29:25 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Anus_Expander
[ - ] Anus_Expander [op] 0 points 2.4 yearsDec 3, 2022 17:51:30 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Deleted
[ - ] deleted 1 point 2.4 yearsDec 3, 2022 11:33:33 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] Anus_Expander
[ - ] Anus_Expander [op] -2 points 2.4 yearsDec 3, 2022 11:44:48 ago (+0/-2)
[ + ] Deleted
[ - ] deleted 1 point 2.4 yearsDec 3, 2022 12:30:32 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] AntiPostmodernist
[ - ] AntiPostmodernist 0 points 2.4 yearsDec 4, 2022 13:37:52 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Deleted
[ - ] deleted 0 points 2.4 yearsDec 4, 2022 16:03:05 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] pickingrinninspittin
[ - ] pickingrinninspittin 6 points 2.4 yearsDec 3, 2022 11:52:42 ago (+7/-1)
Of course barter works, money just works better. Money reduces goods and services to a value, which is something everyone wants.
But in the absence of money barter works fine. My grandfather lived through the depression. He'd talk about how there was no money. And not in the sense of having spent your paycheck on a new pair of shoes. There was literally no money. But they got by, and did so by trading goods and services AKA bartering.
[ + ] Anus_Expander
[ - ] Anus_Expander [op] -1 points 2.4 yearsDec 3, 2022 17:41:25 ago (+0/-1)
I guess you also advise job-seekers to go to the nearest construction site/store/office building, and ask the boss for a job. "Just be CONFIDENT and have a firm handshake, bro!"
[ + ] ruck_feddit
[ - ] ruck_feddit 0 points 2.4 yearsDec 3, 2022 12:40:37 ago (+1/-1)
The gas station owner would barter fuel for a product you produce put on his shelves. That's what's happening now except with a bunch of middlemen.
[ + ] Anus_Expander
[ - ] Anus_Expander [op] 0 points 2.4 yearsDec 3, 2022 17:37:48 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] ruck_feddit
[ - ] ruck_feddit -1 points 2.4 yearsDec 3, 2022 17:57:00 ago (+0/-1)
[ + ] Anus_Expander
[ - ] Anus_Expander [op] 0 points 2.4 yearsDec 3, 2022 18:04:33 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] ruck_feddit
[ - ] ruck_feddit -1 points 2.4 yearsDec 3, 2022 19:15:39 ago (+0/-1)
I could have broken the news to you a little nicer the first time, I suppose.
If I missed the part where you own an isolated cabin in the woods and plan to never need other humans, then forget I said anything.
[ + ] Anus_Expander
[ - ] Anus_Expander [op] 0 points 2.4 yearsDec 4, 2022 06:28:16 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] MaryXmas
[ - ] MaryXmas 3 points 2.4 yearsDec 3, 2022 12:57:31 ago (+3/-0)
When you spend "money", you are literally bartering for a piece of paper.
[ + ] Anus_Expander
[ - ] Anus_Expander [op] 0 points 2.4 yearsDec 3, 2022 17:36:33 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] AntiPostmodernist
[ - ] AntiPostmodernist 0 points 2.4 yearsDec 4, 2022 14:32:29 ago (+0/-0)
We had a barter system, but then some commodities became so universally valued as a medium of exchange that it was expected that someone would be willing to accept that specific kind of goods in all cases (something like salt or gold or diamonds), being so ubiquitously reliable this resource was kept in reserve by all people.
Having these reserves in everyone's private possession caused all sorts of problems, also there were issues with having ready access to one's reserves, people trying to scam each other with imitations of the genuine article that resembled it, but could be used in the ways that gave the item it's value (fool's gold, white sand instead of salt, phony diamonds), also thieves who threatened the safety of everyone as an arms race grew between ordinary folks and the robbers, and public trust was being destroyed as the people warred amongst themselves.
For these and other reasons, it was decided that certain individuals would be in charge of holding the universally exchanged resources, these individuals would be able to distribute the resource from their storage, they would be experts who could verify whether the resources were real or fakes, and everyone knew that whatever amount someone had of that resource in their ownership, it was being kept in that place with it's high level of security, these locations did little else but store the items, verify the items authenticity against frauds, and guard their stores against thieves, they would also carefully measure the amount of the stored resources into specific units, cutting the gems into specific sized and shaped stones, melting down and forging the metals into coins containing a specific amount of the material, or packing the salt into bags or blocks of a specific weight and sealing them up tight to prevent any of it from spilling out (this standardization of units made everything else these places were doing with the resources a lot easier as well).
The people would retrieve some share of the stores by exchanging some contract they had signed with the storehouse operators, it said that there was an amount of the item which was deposited in the place, and that they could retrieve it by displaying the receipt (receipts you get at stores are contracts between you and the store which work the same way, a proof of consent to an interaction showing how you agreed to the exchange of your money for their items or service).
Later on the process of redeeming these receipts for the resource were streamlined:
- Since people almost never wanted to just take out all their stored commodity at once, notes were made for specific amounts which were most commonly requested, along with smaller amounts from which any amount could be added up.
- Since people knew the notes were as good as the items they could be exchanged for, some started to come back with the contracts of someone else requesting a part of the resources they signatory had deposited, the storehouses made such interactions valid by simply removing the name of the person who deposited the resource from the receipts and giving the amount listed on the papers to whoever it was that brought them in.
So we got paper money that way, we also got the warehouses of storage, which we called "banks", the paper money was notes from the bank indicating the amount of a resource they could be exchanged for (hence the term "banknotes"), and we got the standard uniform units of the resources which the banks put on the notes for ease of redemption processing, for metals of value these are what we know as "coins".
So ultimately the system of paper money is the barter system, just more evolved and streamlined.
Kind of like how any sort of ideology is the same as no ideology at all, because like minds eventually came together and gave their shared opinions a name, kind of like how government is the same as a pure anarchy, eventually individuals started working together for common interests and delegating themselves to different tasks within the group.
This is something very basic which people fail to realize: that complex things come out of simple things, centralized things out of decentralized things, religion comes out of the lack of it, government comes from the private sector of stateless individuals, and order emerges out of chaos, all this is always inevitable.
Individualists and anarchists merely want to hit the reset button on everything, all that exists emerged organically out of the kind of state of being these types revere, they emerged because of everyone looking out for themselves, and eventually finding the best way to get what they wanted with what they had, the circumstances naturally produce the kind of systems that come out of them, simply due to people making the best "plays" they can (taking the actions that most favor themselves), as for those who make suboptimal decisions for their circumstances, they tend to be weeded out with time (and luck can only carry them so far), they don't matter in the grand scheme of things.
If the anarcho capitalists get their way, we will see the return to the feudal era as we see the rise of warring kingdoms, the lack of authority leads to even greater authoritarianism.
Individualism creates collectivism without the restrictions which hold the collectives back from using any means to ensure the most absolute conformity within their ranks, and engaging in a no-holds barred war of dogmas, meaning an individualist society results in ultra-orthodoxy, organized groups with centralized leadership, strict dogmas, and structured hierarchies have more power than some disorganized individuals could ever wield, if individualists win it will be their doom soon after, all they would do is shatter societies into many smaller factions who can now fight for dominance without worrying about the larger universal powers that kept them all in line.
[ + ] goat777
[ - ] goat777 1 point 2.4 yearsDec 3, 2022 13:10:15 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] PearofAnguishJuniorManager
[ - ] PearofAnguishJuniorManager 0 points 2.4 yearsDec 3, 2022 14:50:09 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Joe_McCarthy
[ - ] Joe_McCarthy -1 points 2.4 yearsDec 3, 2022 17:48:33 ago (+0/-1)
[ + ] anothergoatinthewall
[ - ] anothergoatinthewall 0 points 2.4 yearsDec 3, 2022 20:11:56 ago (+0/-0)
Not everyone wants what I have to offer. Encounter some who does (I usually have honey, wax, other products from bees), and I tend to have no issue with working out a zero money transaction. This is actually becoming more common, as in more people are asking ME if I'm open to trades... used to be just me asking if they'd be interested in either a partial or complete trade.
The bonus to barter is that I feel like I'm getting more than I'm giving. By that I mean that in the process of turning honey into money, and then using that money to buy whatever item, I have to put much more effort and am out more honey. Direct trade, cutting out the middle-men, feels like getting a 20% discount AND not wasting a ton of my time.
Best trade I've done this year, fresh butchered beef and pork for a 5 gallon bucket of honey.