[ - ] Theo 0 points 11 monthsJun 4, 2024 01:28:17 ago (+0/-0)
But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die. Ezekiel 18:21
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Matthew 5:18
And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise [their] children, neither to walk after the customs. Acts 21:21
explain the correlation of your quotations because i find them out of context here. nowhere in there tells the believer to venerate the dead
want use scripture, perfect
Leviticus 19:28 Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD.
Leviticus 21:1 And the LORD said unto Moses, Speak unto the priests the sons of Aaron, and say unto them, There shall none be defiled for the dead among his people:
Deuteronomy 14:1 Ye are the children of the LORD your God: ye shall not cut yourselves, nor make any baldness between your eyes for the dead.
Matthew 8:22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.
In response to the accusation that they worship Mary and the saints, Catholics will often claim that they “venerate,” not worship, them. To venerate is to regard with great respect or to revere. Veneration can be defined as “respect or awe directed toward someone due to his/her value or greatness.”
The simplest definition of worship is to “ascribe worth.” Worship can be more completely defined as “showing respect, love, reverence, or adoration.” Based on the dictionary, no clear difference between veneration and worship exists. In fact, veneration and worship are often used as synonyms for each other.
But dictionary definitions are not the point. It does not matter what it is called. The Bible nowhere instructs followers of Jesus Christ to offer worship, veneration, adoration, or anything similar to anyone but God. Nowhere does the New Testament describe any followers of Jesus Christ worshiping, venerating, or adoring anyone other than God. They did not receive worship, either. Peter refused to receive adoration from Cornelius (Acts 10:25–26), and Paul and Barnabas were equally adamant that the people of Lystra not venerate them (Acts 14:15). Twice in the Book of Revelation (Revelation 19:10; 22:8), the apostle John begins to worship an angel, and the angel instructs him, “Worship God!” Mary and the saints who have gone to heaven before us would say the same thing: “Worship God!”
The Catholic Church has different degrees of worship: dulia, hyper dulia, and latria. Dulia is the honor given to the saints. Hyper dulia is the honor given to Mary alone, as the greatest of the saints. Latria is the honor given to God alone. In contrast, the Bible always ascribes honor, in the context of worship, to God alone (1 Chronicles 29:11; 1 Timothy 1:17; 6:16; Revelation 4:11; 5:13). Even if there were biblical support for different levels of worship, there still would be no biblical support for offering lower/lesser levels of worship to anyone other than God.
Only God is worthy of worship, adoration, praise (Nehemiah 9:6; Revelation 4:11; 15:4), and veneration, no matter how it is defined. Mary’s worth comes from the fact that God choose her for a glorious role and saved her from her sins through the death of Jesus Christ (Luke 1:47). The saints’ worth comes from the fact that God saved them, transformed them, and then used them in mighty and amazing ways. May we all, with Mary and the saints, fall on our knees and worship the only One who is worthy.
[ - ] Theo 0 points 11 monthsJun 4, 2024 02:19:24 ago (+0/-0)
My verses are about the relationship between life and death to observance of the law. The RCC draws from tradition which doesn't hold have a high regard for the law.
Exclusive veneration/worship isn't supported by your verses from Nehemiah and Revelation. The first commandment from Exodus 20 doesn't support that either, it's conditional on "above me (my face)". Veneration of the dead is a separate issue, and you have posted relevant verses about that.
honoring your father and mother is quite different than honoring the saints or mary. learn the difference. besides you parents are God's co creators in the sense that they created you that's why God wants them to you to honor them and respect them.
the commandment doesnt say worship thy father and thy mother before me. learn the difference
If you think the concept of prayer is just basically expressing something to someone, you need to change your denomination. I may hope for someone to be well or to have blessings, but I pray to the Heavenly Father and Jesus is the intercessor. Not Mary. Not some fake saint.
I don't see anywhere in that passage to pray to a dead person to pray for you. It doesn't take a linguistics degree to understand Christians are to pray to GOD in Jesus' name for themselves and others. The living breathing members of the faith. But hey, I'm not gonna get upset about this because as a Christian, you are my brother in Christ. We cannot afford to sweat this tiny stuff when there is so much else to defend and praise.
It's said that a body of a soul that lived a Holy life, is incorruptible, meaning that it will not decompose for a very long time, if ever. This boy died in 2006, and it looks like hes asleep, rather than dead, and all of this time has passed, there should be signs of decomposition.
We Catholics venerate (Religiously honor) the dead, because we believe that the soul lives on, and we ask our loved deceased ones you aid us in our struggles and needs.
In response to the accusation that they worship Mary and the saints, Catholics will often claim that they “venerate,” not worship, them. To venerate is to regard with great respect or to revere. Veneration can be defined as “respect or awe directed toward someone due to his/her value or greatness.”
The simplest definition of worship is to “ascribe worth.” Worship can be more completely defined as “showing respect, love, reverence, or adoration.” Based on the dictionary, no clear difference between veneration and worship exists. In fact, veneration and worship are often used as synonyms for each other.
But dictionary definitions are not the point. It does not matter what it is called. The Bible nowhere instructs followers of Jesus Christ to offer worship, veneration, adoration, or anything similar to anyone but God. Nowhere does the New Testament describe any followers of Jesus Christ worshiping, venerating, or adoring anyone other than God. They did not receive worship, either. Peter refused to receive adoration from Cornelius (Acts 10:25–26), and Paul and Barnabas were equally adamant that the people of Lystra not venerate them (Acts 14:15). Twice in the Book of Revelation (Revelation 19:10; 22:8), the apostle John begins to worship an angel, and the angel instructs him, “Worship God!” Mary and the saints who have gone to heaven before us would say the same thing: “Worship God!”
The Catholic Church has different degrees of worship: dulia, hyper dulia, and latria. Dulia is the honor given to the saints. Hyper dulia is the honor given to Mary alone, as the greatest of the saints. Latria is the honor given to God alone. In contrast, the Bible always ascribes honor, in the context of worship, to God alone (1 Chronicles 29:11; 1 Timothy 1:17; 6:16; Revelation 4:11; 5:13). Even if there were biblical support for different levels of worship, there still would be no biblical support for offering lower/lesser levels of worship to anyone other than God.
Only God is worthy of worship, adoration, praise (Nehemiah 9:6; Revelation 4:11; 15:4), and veneration, no matter how it is defined. Mary’s worth comes from the fact that God choose her for a glorious role and saved her from her sins through the death of Jesus Christ (Luke 1:47). The saints’ worth comes from the fact that God saved them, transformed them, and then used them in mighty and amazing ways. May we all, with Mary and the saints, fall on our knees and worship the only One who is worthy.
[ - ] iSnark 1 point 11 monthsJun 4, 2024 02:12:06 ago (+1/-0)
There is precedence in the Bible for we Catholics to go to Mother Mary. Just as the Wine Steward went to the Holy Mother at the Wedding at Cana, we go to the Holy Mother, to ask for help. The Holy Mother is not some static figure that sits on a shelf somewhere in heaven, She is a very dynamic and highly revered figure within Heaven. The Holy Mother can take our prayers to Jesus or God, and ask for help for the soul on Earth that is in need. The holy Mother is not specifically a member of the Trinity, but She works very closely with the Trinity to fight for the Salvation of souls.
Just as the Wine Steward went to the Holy Mother at the Wedding at Cana, we go to the Holy Mother, to ask for help.
he didnt fall on his knees and asked her for help. they just asked for help that's it there's no veneration or involved and she did pointed towards jesus, she didnt tell them to pray the rosary 3 times a day for the exaltation of her immaculate heart. you are confused
The Holy Mother is not some static figure that sits on a shelf somewhere in heaven,
wrong read the book of revelation, there's only one who is being worshipped there and that's jesus. you dont see the saints or angels bowing to mary in heaven as co redemptrix. its not there
the doctrine is made up. mary was just a vessel that God used to bring his son forth in to this world nothing more, nothing less. she wasnt a perpetual virgin because jesus had brothers and sisters. the catholic church as incorporated lots pagan stuff in to itself
She is a very dynamic and highly revered figure within Heaven
wrong she is currently doing what every departed saint is doing in heaven which is worshipping God. she has no other role in there. again, read apocalypsis there's only one that is being worshipped and that's only God. the angels and cherubims that are there are following the commandments of GOD in judging planet earth
The holy Mother is not specifically a member of the Trinity, but She works very closely with the Trinity to fight for the Salvation of souls.
this is false. again there's no a single scripture that talks about this. the work of the cross is DONE . finish. finito. that's all folks.
there's nothing to add to the work done by christ because it was sufficient for man's salvation. is thru the shedding of his holy blood that sinners can be saved thru faith by grace. mary is impotent to save anybody and so are the saints. only God thru his holy spirit can convince wicked men from sin
1 John 4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
Romans 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
[ + ] Sector2
[ - ] Sector2 1 point 11 monthsJun 4, 2024 03:17:26 ago (+1/-0)
That's a non-Christian religion.
[ + ] Theo
[ - ] Theo 0 points 11 monthsJun 4, 2024 01:28:17 ago (+0/-0)
Ezekiel 18:21
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Matthew 5:18
And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise [their] children, neither to walk after the customs.
Acts 21:21
[ + ] dosvydanya_freedomz
[ - ] dosvydanya_freedomz [op] 1 point 11 monthsJun 4, 2024 01:55:54 ago (+1/-0)
want use scripture, perfect
https://www.gotquestions.org/veneration.html
In response to the accusation that they worship Mary and the saints, Catholics will often claim that they “venerate,” not worship, them. To venerate is to regard with great respect or to revere. Veneration can be defined as “respect or awe directed toward someone due to his/her value or greatness.”
The simplest definition of worship is to “ascribe worth.” Worship can be more completely defined as “showing respect, love, reverence, or adoration.” Based on the dictionary, no clear difference between veneration and worship exists. In fact, veneration and worship are often used as synonyms for each other.
But dictionary definitions are not the point. It does not matter what it is called. The Bible nowhere instructs followers of Jesus Christ to offer worship, veneration, adoration, or anything similar to anyone but God. Nowhere does the New Testament describe any followers of Jesus Christ worshiping, venerating, or adoring anyone other than God. They did not receive worship, either. Peter refused to receive adoration from Cornelius (Acts 10:25–26), and Paul and Barnabas were equally adamant that the people of Lystra not venerate them (Acts 14:15). Twice in the Book of Revelation (Revelation 19:10; 22:8), the apostle John begins to worship an angel, and the angel instructs him, “Worship God!” Mary and the saints who have gone to heaven before us would say the same thing: “Worship God!”
The Catholic Church has different degrees of worship: dulia, hyper dulia, and latria. Dulia is the honor given to the saints. Hyper dulia is the honor given to Mary alone, as the greatest of the saints. Latria is the honor given to God alone. In contrast, the Bible always ascribes honor, in the context of worship, to God alone (1 Chronicles 29:11; 1 Timothy 1:17; 6:16; Revelation 4:11; 5:13). Even if there were biblical support for different levels of worship, there still would be no biblical support for offering lower/lesser levels of worship to anyone other than God.
Only God is worthy of worship, adoration, praise (Nehemiah 9:6; Revelation 4:11; 15:4), and veneration, no matter how it is defined. Mary’s worth comes from the fact that God choose her for a glorious role and saved her from her sins through the death of Jesus Christ (Luke 1:47). The saints’ worth comes from the fact that God saved them, transformed them, and then used them in mighty and amazing ways. May we all, with Mary and the saints, fall on our knees and worship the only One who is worthy.
[ + ] Theo
[ - ] Theo 0 points 11 monthsJun 4, 2024 02:19:24 ago (+0/-0)
Exclusive veneration/worship isn't supported by your verses from Nehemiah and Revelation. The first commandment from Exodus 20 doesn't support that either, it's conditional on "above me (my face)". Veneration of the dead is a separate issue, and you have posted relevant verses about that.
[ + ] Deleted
[ - ] deleted 0 points 11 monthsJun 4, 2024 03:33:00 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] dosvydanya_freedomz
[ - ] dosvydanya_freedomz [op] 0 points 11 monthsJun 4, 2024 06:12:18 ago (+0/-0)
the commandment doesnt say worship thy father and thy mother before me. learn the difference
[ + ] Deleted
[ - ] deleted 0 points 11 monthsJun 4, 2024 14:09:41 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] jfroybees
[ - ] jfroybees 0 points 11 monthsJun 4, 2024 06:20:01 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Deleted
[ - ] deleted 0 points 11 monthsJun 4, 2024 14:46:15 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] jfroybees
[ - ] jfroybees 0 points 11 monthsJun 4, 2024 21:30:28 ago (+0/-0)
1 Timothy 2:5-6
[ + ] Deleted
[ - ] deleted 0 points 11 monthsJun 5, 2024 07:56:49 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] jfroybees
[ - ] jfroybees 0 points 11 monthsJun 5, 2024 13:52:13 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Deleted
[ - ] deleted 0 points 10 monthsJun 5, 2024 15:34:09 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] iSnark
[ - ] iSnark 0 points 11 monthsJun 4, 2024 01:18:15 ago (+0/-0)
It's said that a body of a soul that lived a Holy life, is incorruptible, meaning that it will not decompose for a very long time, if ever. This boy died in 2006, and it looks like hes asleep, rather than dead, and all of this time has passed, there should be signs of decomposition.
We Catholics venerate (Religiously honor) the dead, because we believe that the soul lives on, and we ask our loved deceased ones you aid us in our struggles and needs.
[ + ] dosvydanya_freedomz
[ - ] dosvydanya_freedomz [op] 1 point 11 monthsJun 4, 2024 01:21:01 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] iSnark
[ - ] iSnark 0 points 11 monthsJun 4, 2024 01:25:48 ago (+0/-0)
https://www.ncregister.com/blog/biblical-evidence-for-veneration-of-saints-and-images
[ + ] dosvydanya_freedomz
[ - ] dosvydanya_freedomz [op] 1 point 11 monthsJun 4, 2024 01:57:56 ago (+1/-0)
The simplest definition of worship is to “ascribe worth.” Worship can be more completely defined as “showing respect, love, reverence, or adoration.” Based on the dictionary, no clear difference between veneration and worship exists. In fact, veneration and worship are often used as synonyms for each other.
But dictionary definitions are not the point. It does not matter what it is called. The Bible nowhere instructs followers of Jesus Christ to offer worship, veneration, adoration, or anything similar to anyone but God. Nowhere does the New Testament describe any followers of Jesus Christ worshiping, venerating, or adoring anyone other than God. They did not receive worship, either. Peter refused to receive adoration from Cornelius (Acts 10:25–26), and Paul and Barnabas were equally adamant that the people of Lystra not venerate them (Acts 14:15). Twice in the Book of Revelation (Revelation 19:10; 22:8), the apostle John begins to worship an angel, and the angel instructs him, “Worship God!” Mary and the saints who have gone to heaven before us would say the same thing: “Worship God!”
The Catholic Church has different degrees of worship: dulia, hyper dulia, and latria. Dulia is the honor given to the saints. Hyper dulia is the honor given to Mary alone, as the greatest of the saints. Latria is the honor given to God alone. In contrast, the Bible always ascribes honor, in the context of worship, to God alone (1 Chronicles 29:11; 1 Timothy 1:17; 6:16; Revelation 4:11; 5:13). Even if there were biblical support for different levels of worship, there still would be no biblical support for offering lower/lesser levels of worship to anyone other than God.
Only God is worthy of worship, adoration, praise (Nehemiah 9:6; Revelation 4:11; 15:4), and veneration, no matter how it is defined. Mary’s worth comes from the fact that God choose her for a glorious role and saved her from her sins through the death of Jesus Christ (Luke 1:47). The saints’ worth comes from the fact that God saved them, transformed them, and then used them in mighty and amazing ways. May we all, with Mary and the saints, fall on our knees and worship the only One who is worthy.
[ + ] iSnark
[ - ] iSnark 1 point 11 monthsJun 4, 2024 02:12:06 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] dosvydanya_freedomz
[ - ] dosvydanya_freedomz [op] 0 points 11 monthsJun 4, 2024 06:31:55 ago (+0/-0)*
he didnt fall on his knees and asked her for help. they just asked for help that's it there's no veneration or involved and she did pointed towards jesus, she didnt tell them to pray the rosary 3 times a day for the exaltation of her immaculate heart. you are confused
wrong read the book of revelation, there's only one who is being worshipped there and that's jesus. you dont see the saints or angels bowing to mary in heaven as co redemptrix. its not there
the doctrine is made up. mary was just a vessel that God used to bring his son forth in to this world nothing more, nothing less. she wasnt a perpetual virgin because jesus had brothers and sisters. the catholic church as incorporated lots pagan stuff in to itself
wrong she is currently doing what every departed saint is doing in heaven which is worshipping God. she has no other role in there. again, read apocalypsis there's only one that is being worshipped and that's only God. the angels and cherubims that are there are following the commandments of GOD in judging planet earth
this is false. again there's no a single scripture that talks about this. the work of the cross is DONE . finish. finito. that's all folks.
there's nothing to add to the work done by christ because it was sufficient for man's salvation. is thru the shedding of his holy blood that sinners can be saved thru faith by grace. mary is impotent to save anybody and so are the saints. only God thru his holy spirit can convince wicked men from sin