i have in my shop an old genie gs1930 scissor lift that was given to me because it needs an ecm that is going for 2-3000 dollars. i intend to use and arduino or raspberry pi microcontroller to replace the ECM. unfortunately i have no programming skills. i understand python is the programming language i have to learn to accomplish what i want, but i don't know where to begin. i have an arduino, a usb cable, an old PC, and an electronic engineering education that is 20 years out of date. looks like a fairly straightforeward 24v system. a handful of 24v electromagnetic hydraulic valves, a 24v motor hooked up to a hydraulic pump, and an ecm to do the if/then/and/or. i'm thinking the arduino control voltage is going to be around 5v. so that means there has to be a relay that will open/close a 24v circuit with a 5v control voltage. anybody know anything about this stuff?
You don't need Python for Arduino, it's pretty much C. Pi uses Python though. Download the development environment from https://www.arduino.cc/en/software The version of the ARduino IDE that's in the Windows store, and sometimes the ones in Linux repositories have strange errors that flip bits or don't work right.
When you start programming on Arduino the basic programs use the delay() function. You can learn the basics using delay() but you can only do one thing at a time. Study the BlinkWithoutDelay() program until you understand it, then you can turn all those relays on/off as you want. There are probably limit switches in the scissor lift too you'll have to read. You have your work cut out for you.
Figure out your shielded i/o requirements. Use those outputs to your electrical selinoind valves. Anything proportional should be in the valve itself. But personally for a genie lift I would just go with 3 way toggle switches and forget the controller.
i'm thinking of going with an analog control system. the problem is all the speeds would be way past normal perameters and i'm afraid it would buck like a bronco even though it has an accumulator
the chain of events was someone attempted a repair and just hammered the harnesses. shorted the ecm. i've been wanting to do a project like this for a while. i may crack it open to see if its an easy fix.
[ - ] foxtrot45 1 point 5 monthsNov 19, 2024 07:15:12 ago (+1/-0)
Arduino is C, not python. There are tons of examples on the internet for code. To me its like a spreadsheet, and goes in a loop. So in the beginning you can set pins high and low, some you can configure for reading voltages. The tricky part is making your code efficient and not retarded like mine. My project took 3 months from knowing nothing to having a working irrigation (4 pumps system 5 solenoids and hooked up to openhab via mqtt messages. You will want to use relays, they are cheap, I just bought 3 boards, each board has 8 relays (channels) on it. Someday when a washing machine breaks im going to rebuild it with all the safeties off, that way its a lifetime consumer product. Everything should be run by a arduino or similar, i mean where the end use can tinker easily. good luck
ditchpig asked it how to get started and commented it above. it laid out everything. that's creepy stuff,but how does a guy not use something that useful?
[ - ] oyveyo 1 point 5 monthsNov 19, 2024 00:03:20 ago (+1/-0)*
You have a bunch of inputs from the user, and a bunch of inputs from limit switches, and of course the outputs.
The tricky part is that this is a proportional control system, you have variable resistors at the joystick and the ECM has PWM speed control outputs. I don't know if your PCM powerpack is integrated into the ECM or not, but you're either going to have to code for this or skip the proportional control and live dangerously.
Show me a schematic of the lift and I'll tell you exactly what you need to do. If you still have the old ECM and it's just the processor that's fried, you can probably cut the processor out and piggyback the microcontroller onto the motherboard to take advantage of all the interface components that are already present. If you don't know the problem with the ECM, you'll have to decide if you want to go through the board testing sections or starting from scratch would be better. It depends on your level of expertise and what test equipment you have.
the proportional system is a square wave modulation of the hydraulic solenoids that stutter faster or slower depending on joystick position or programmable speed presets. without the ecm limiting things i think it would indeed be a wild ride. i want to replace the sucker. think of it! we could be free of manufacturers bullshit! i hope people are buying these microcontrollers up as part of their apocalypse stashes.
i was afraid of that. i think i can make a little motorized modulator (some kind of doohickey to pulse the circuit like a set of automotive points attached to a little electric motor) i can control the speed with. if i put it on the other side of the relays you think that will do the trick?
i was afraid of that. i think i can make a little motorized modulator (some kind of doohickey to pulse the circuit like a set of automotive points attached to a little electric motor) i can control the speed with. if i put it on the other side of the relays you think that will do the trick?
What kind of lift actuator are you using? You don't usually need anything complicated, just an ability to lift and lower the actuator. Most likely this is a DC actuator system, so basically you're looking at a transformer, rectifier (or two car batteries in series for the power supply) and switch. In the case of "brushless DC", this is not an expensive circuit at all.
I guess what I'm saying is you could use a switchgear type circuit and forgo any "controller".
To start, I would literally recommend a 3-way switch (forward +24vdc, reverse -24vdc and off 0vdc) connected to two car batteries in series. Connect the other side of the switch to the two power input cables of the actuators. There may be a few other cables in the actuator connectors, but if you send us a shot of the nameplate someone could get your thing working today.
EDIT: I mean "actuator" as the hydraulic motor/pump system that pushes a piston. Really, it's functionally the same as a DC linear actuator but has more control.
i've got 4 6v t-105 trojan run in series to run the 24 motor which runs a hydraulic pump. the pump has a motor controller which may also be bad. they really did a number on this machine. you can activate the pump by jumping the ground connection. i have to read up on what that thing does before i replace it with a winch long run solenoid or even a big starter solenoid like i'm thinking. i can pull varying voltages from the batteries by going to a particular battery. all that leaves is the 24v hydraulic shuttle solenoids. there is a hydraulic accumulator in the system so that should smooth things out. only problem is limiting the function speeds. i'm thinking in-line hydraulic restriction orifices. this is just my spitball plan for right now. i'll refine my approach as i gather more information.
OK, awesome if the system functions in a basic with with the switch (as you said "jumping ground connection". If it is variable (does lowering the voltage change the speed the pump runs?), then I think all you're going to need for a "switch" is a mosfet circuit with basic control and a dial.
Can you reverse the rotation with reversing the voltage? Do you have nameplate info on the electric motor?
the pump only runs one direction applying positive hydraulic pressure to a full hydraulic system with manifolds/etc. i believe the speed control is done with a "square wave modulation" or something. basically they stutter the solenoid either faster or slower but the pump runs the same speed. a hall effect joystick dictates the solenoid stutter frequency and the ecm does the modulation. i was thinking of whipping up some kind of fun little interruptor to pulse the voltage to the hydraulic shuttle solenoid (like points on an old distributor) on a little motor where i could vary the speed with a rheostat or something if i decide to go with analog. in response to your question the lifting of the scissor stack is done with a single acting hydraulic cylinder with a pressure relief at one of the hydraulic solenoids. thats "down"
the pump only runs one direction applying positive hydraulic pressure to a full hydraulic system with manifolds/etc. i believe the speed control is done with a "square wave modulation" or something.
OK, this is good stuff. So the motor control should be easier but are you sure it's not "PULSE WIDTH MODULATION"?
ahhhh! i'm not sure it isn't!in fact that sounds familiar. so they dont want that pump bang-bang starting. poop. maybe i'll just throw a 12v rv hydraulic pump in the thing.
from chatgpt, make an account, very useful as a search engine.
You're embarking on an interesting project! Here's how you can break it down:
1. Learn Programming Basics Since Arduino primarily uses C++, and Python is optional for a Raspberry Pi, you'll need to focus on:
Arduino IDE: Start with basic tutorials like blinking an LED. For Raspberry Pi, learn Python basics with interactive platforms like Codecademy or W3Schools. 2. Understand the Circuitry The Arduino outputs 5V signals, so you'll need relays to interface with the 24V hydraulic valves. Use relay modules designed for Arduino to simplify the process. Look for a 5V relay board compatible with your Arduino. 3. Plan the Control Logic Identify the operations for the scissor lift: up, down, emergency stop, etc. Write the logic in terms of if/then conditions, mapping each action to a specific relay activation. 4. Set Up the Hardware Power Supplies: Ensure separate 24V and 5V supplies to avoid overloading. Safety: Include fuses and diodes for protection against back-EMF from relays and motors. 5. Write and Test Code Start small. Write a program to toggle a relay on and off using an Arduino. Expand to integrate multiple relays, simulating the required operations of the lift. Example: Controlling a Relay Here’s an Arduino sketch to control a relay:
cpp Copy code int relayPin = 7; // Pin connected to relay
void setup() { pinMode(relayPin, OUTPUT); }
void loop() { digitalWrite(relayPin, HIGH); // Turn relay on delay(1000); // Wait 1 second digitalWrite(relayPin, LOW); // Turn relay off delay(1000); // Wait 1 second } 6. Resources Arduino Getting Started Guide Raspberry Pi Projects For relay modules, search for "Arduino 5V relay module" online. 7. Community Support Forums like Arduino or Stack Overflow can help with questions.
Would you like guidance on specific steps or help wiring a relay?
holy shit we're doomed. nobody is going to have to think again. look at what calculators did to us. i've completely forgotten most of my math. thats simply incredible.
You can't program Python on arduino. Arduino is a metal level platform. If you don't know about programming, skip the arduino for now and get a raspberry PI 5. It's designed to be a learning tool.
but, realistically, you should just try to install Linux on Raspberry pi first, Then get a hello world program running in python, then get an LED to blink.
Also, you may not need anything so complicated. Try wiring a simple light switch to your 24v line and see if you can control it that way.
I think the Arduino only has like 8 digital i/o? How many do you need for the ECM? I found the Arduino a bit underpowered so used the stm32 for some projects. Have you done a search for ECM Arduino projects you could start from?
i plan on starting this weekend. jeeze, you guys really are a smart crowd. i think i can do the job with 6. up, down, left, right, forward, backward. so far all i have is the arduino.
it should do the job, and it is cheap so that helps. you should give yourself credit, as most people never get past the "dream about it" stage. i'm not as smart as I make myself look, but I can usually stumble and bumble my way through to get something working.
Someone was looking at something similar on one of the ford falcon forums in aus.
I wanted to know if you can replace the standard 4 speed gearbox with the zf 6 speed that came out for the bf ford fairmont. Its either a home brew ecm or literally transplanting half a cars electrics and potentially still work as it needs to be matched to the engine which would either be a newer inline 6 or same inline 6 ive got but turbocharged, so would still need ecm modded.
Ultimately better off buying the better model in the first place sadly.
so that means there has to be a relay that will open/close a 24v circuit with a 5v control voltage
Everyone's covered everything else so I'll talk about this. Those relays exist on Amazon for a few bucks, specifically 24v ones. I looked for my own project to have a temp-controlled heater pad for my solar batteries before I just moved the whole system inside.
[ + ] allAheadFull
[ - ] allAheadFull 5 points 5 monthsNov 19, 2024 02:43:48 ago (+5/-0)
When you start programming on Arduino the basic programs use the delay() function. You can learn the basics using delay() but you can only do one thing at a time. Study the BlinkWithoutDelay() program until you understand it, then you can turn all those relays on/off as you want. There are probably limit switches in the scissor lift too you'll have to read. You have your work cut out for you.
[ + ] PenisEnvy
[ - ] PenisEnvy 2 points 5 monthsNov 19, 2024 01:42:02 ago (+2/-0)
[ + ] drstrangergov
[ - ] drstrangergov [op] 0 points 5 monthsNov 19, 2024 21:29:42 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] bosunmoon
[ - ] bosunmoon 1 point 5 monthsNov 19, 2024 15:03:38 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] drstrangergov
[ - ] drstrangergov [op] 0 points 5 monthsNov 19, 2024 20:43:54 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] DitchPig
[ - ] DitchPig 1 point 5 monthsNov 19, 2024 12:06:16 ago (+1/-0)
https://www.youtube.com/@paulmcwhorter/playlists
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJWR7dBuc18&list=PLGs0VKk2DiYw-L-RibttcvK-WBZm8WLEP&index=1
[ + ] drstrangergov
[ - ] drstrangergov [op] 1 point 5 monthsNov 19, 2024 21:01:05 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] MaryXmas
[ - ] MaryXmas 1 point 5 monthsNov 19, 2024 09:56:41 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] Belfuro
[ - ] Belfuro 1 point 5 monthsNov 19, 2024 11:19:42 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] MaryXmas
[ - ] MaryXmas 0 points 5 monthsNov 19, 2024 12:49:00 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Belfuro
[ - ] Belfuro 0 points 5 monthsNov 19, 2024 17:22:10 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] foxtrot45
[ - ] foxtrot45 1 point 5 monthsNov 19, 2024 07:15:12 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] drstrangergov
[ - ] drstrangergov [op] 0 points 5 monthsNov 19, 2024 21:45:44 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Freespeechplease
[ - ] Freespeechplease 1 point 5 monthsNov 19, 2024 06:59:13 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] drstrangergov
[ - ] drstrangergov [op] 0 points 5 monthsNov 19, 2024 21:08:26 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] oyveyo
[ - ] oyveyo 1 point 5 monthsNov 19, 2024 00:03:20 ago (+1/-0)*
The tricky part is that this is a proportional control system, you have variable resistors at the joystick and the ECM has PWM speed control outputs. I don't know if your PCM powerpack is integrated into the ECM or not, but you're either going to have to code for this or skip the proportional control and live dangerously.
Show me a schematic of the lift and I'll tell you exactly what you need to do. If you still have the old ECM and it's just the processor that's fried, you can probably cut the processor out and piggyback the microcontroller onto the motherboard to take advantage of all the interface components that are already present. If you don't know the problem with the ECM, you'll have to decide if you want to go through the board testing sections or starting from scratch would be better. It depends on your level of expertise and what test equipment you have.
[ + ] drstrangergov
[ - ] drstrangergov [op] 0 points 5 monthsNov 19, 2024 21:35:44 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] oyveyo
[ - ] oyveyo 1 point 5 monthsNov 19, 2024 22:53:41 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] drstrangergov
[ - ] drstrangergov [op] 0 points 5 monthsNov 20, 2024 15:13:34 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] drstrangergov
[ - ] drstrangergov [op] 0 points 5 monthsNov 20, 2024 15:15:45 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Love240
[ - ] Love240 1 point 5 monthsNov 18, 2024 23:40:46 ago (+1/-0)
https://www.amazon.com/PlusRoc-Waterproof-Converter-Compatible-Cellphone/dp/B09DGFR24W/
[ + ] PenisEnvy
[ - ] PenisEnvy 0 points 5 monthsNov 19, 2024 01:37:38 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Love240
[ - ] Love240 0 points 5 monthsNov 19, 2024 02:48:00 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] drstrangergov
[ - ] drstrangergov [op] 0 points 5 monthsNov 19, 2024 21:38:17 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Dingo
[ - ] Dingo 0 points 5 monthsNov 19, 2024 12:34:56 ago (+0/-0)*
I guess what I'm saying is you could use a switchgear type circuit and forgo any "controller".
To start, I would literally recommend a 3-way switch (forward +24vdc, reverse -24vdc and off 0vdc) connected to two car batteries in series. Connect the other side of the switch to the two power input cables of the actuators. There may be a few other cables in the actuator connectors, but if you send us a shot of the nameplate someone could get your thing working today.
EDIT: I mean "actuator" as the hydraulic motor/pump system that pushes a piston. Really, it's functionally the same as a DC linear actuator but has more control.
[ + ] drstrangergov
[ - ] drstrangergov [op] 0 points 5 monthsNov 19, 2024 20:56:37 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Dingo
[ - ] Dingo 0 points 5 monthsNov 19, 2024 21:05:25 ago (+0/-0)
Can you reverse the rotation with reversing the voltage? Do you have nameplate info on the electric motor?
[ + ] drstrangergov
[ - ] drstrangergov [op] 0 points 5 monthsNov 19, 2024 21:23:49 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Dingo
[ - ] Dingo 0 points 5 monthsNov 19, 2024 21:27:38 ago (+0/-0)
the pump only runs one direction applying positive hydraulic pressure to a full hydraulic system with manifolds/etc. i believe the speed control is done with a "square wave modulation" or something.
OK, this is good stuff. So the motor control should be easier but are you sure it's not "PULSE WIDTH MODULATION"?
[ + ] drstrangergov
[ - ] drstrangergov [op] 0 points 5 monthsNov 19, 2024 21:40:39 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] DitchPig
[ - ] DitchPig 0 points 5 monthsNov 19, 2024 12:09:26 ago (+0/-0)
You're embarking on an interesting project! Here's how you can break it down:
1. Learn Programming Basics
Since Arduino primarily uses C++, and Python is optional for a Raspberry Pi, you'll need to focus on:
Arduino IDE: Start with basic tutorials like blinking an LED.
For Raspberry Pi, learn Python basics with interactive platforms like Codecademy or W3Schools.
2. Understand the Circuitry
The Arduino outputs 5V signals, so you'll need relays to interface with the 24V hydraulic valves.
Use relay modules designed for Arduino to simplify the process. Look for a 5V relay board compatible with your Arduino.
3. Plan the Control Logic
Identify the operations for the scissor lift: up, down, emergency stop, etc.
Write the logic in terms of if/then conditions, mapping each action to a specific relay activation.
4. Set Up the Hardware
Power Supplies: Ensure separate 24V and 5V supplies to avoid overloading.
Safety: Include fuses and diodes for protection against back-EMF from relays and motors.
5. Write and Test Code
Start small. Write a program to toggle a relay on and off using an Arduino.
Expand to integrate multiple relays, simulating the required operations of the lift.
Example: Controlling a Relay
Here’s an Arduino sketch to control a relay:
cpp
Copy code
int relayPin = 7; // Pin connected to relay
void setup() {
pinMode(relayPin, OUTPUT);
}
void loop() {
digitalWrite(relayPin, HIGH); // Turn relay on
delay(1000); // Wait 1 second
digitalWrite(relayPin, LOW); // Turn relay off
delay(1000); // Wait 1 second
}
6. Resources
Arduino Getting Started Guide
Raspberry Pi Projects
For relay modules, search for "Arduino 5V relay module" online.
7. Community Support
Forums like Arduino or Stack Overflow can help with questions.
Would you like guidance on specific steps or help wiring a relay?
[ + ] drstrangergov
[ - ] drstrangergov [op] 1 point 5 monthsNov 19, 2024 21:00:02 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] Master_Foo
[ - ] Master_Foo 0 points 5 monthsNov 19, 2024 08:57:38 ago (+0/-0)
Arduino is a metal level platform.
If you don't know about programming, skip the arduino for now and get a raspberry PI 5.
It's designed to be a learning tool.
As for "ECM", I don't know what that stands for.
This is a relay that will take a 5v input and use that signal to switch a 24v line.
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=DC+24V+1+Channel+Relay+Module&t=brave&ia=web
but, realistically, you should just try to install Linux on Raspberry pi first, Then get a hello world program running in python, then get an LED to blink.
Also, you may not need anything so complicated.
Try wiring a simple light switch to your 24v line and see if you can control it that way.
[ + ] drstrangergov
[ - ] drstrangergov [op] 0 points 5 monthsNov 19, 2024 21:02:21 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Master_Foo
[ - ] Master_Foo 1 point 5 monthsNov 19, 2024 21:30:33 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] drstrangergov
[ - ] drstrangergov [op] 0 points 5 monthsNov 19, 2024 21:41:33 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] AugustineOfHippo2
[ - ] AugustineOfHippo2 0 points 5 monthsNov 19, 2024 07:31:06 ago (+0/-0)
https://search.brave.com/search?q=arduino+ecm
[ + ] drstrangergov
[ - ] drstrangergov [op] 0 points 5 monthsNov 19, 2024 21:06:14 ago (+0/-0)*
[ + ] AugustineOfHippo2
[ - ] AugustineOfHippo2 1 point 5 monthsNov 19, 2024 22:38:17 ago (+1/-0)
i'm not as smart as I make myself look, but I can usually stumble and bumble my way through to get something working.
[ + ] drstrangergov
[ - ] drstrangergov [op] 0 points 5 monthsNov 20, 2024 15:14:25 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] i_scream_trucks
[ - ] i_scream_trucks 0 points 5 monthsNov 19, 2024 04:38:06 ago (+0/-0)*
I wanted to know if you can replace the standard 4 speed gearbox with the zf 6 speed that came out for the bf ford fairmont. Its either a home brew ecm or literally transplanting half a cars electrics and potentially still work as it needs to be matched to the engine which would either be a newer inline 6 or same inline 6 ive got but turbocharged, so would still need ecm modded.
Ultimately better off buying the better model in the first place sadly.
[ + ] drstrangergov
[ - ] drstrangergov [op] 0 points 5 monthsNov 19, 2024 21:47:46 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] PotatoWhisperer2
[ - ] PotatoWhisperer2 0 points 5 monthsNov 19, 2024 03:33:51 ago (+0/-0)
Everyone's covered everything else so I'll talk about this. Those relays exist on Amazon for a few bucks, specifically 24v ones. I looked for my own project to have a temp-controlled heater pad for my solar batteries before I just moved the whole system inside.
[ + ] drstrangergov
[ - ] drstrangergov [op] 1 point 5 monthsNov 19, 2024 21:48:45 ago (+1/-0)