Makes things worse 9 times outta 10. "This will force the bolt closed so I'm gonna do that even if it's not the right thing to do when gun not go bang."
It's only there because retarded Army grunts wanted a button to push in case things went wrong. A solution in search of a problem, really.
Very rarely has it come in handy, but in some circumstances, very few and far between, it does. When God and Eugene Stoner first created the platform, there was no forward assist. Hear it from the man himself:
Not to get too Chesnekov but stamped AK patterns are fine. Certainly fine for civilian defense small arms. "80% rider, 20% bike."
I have a buddy who was 82ndA and he would go outside the wire, kill a haji for his AKM, and then fight with the AKM because he liked it more than the weapon he was issued. A lot of times the hajis would take their shot, drop the rifle, and run because shooting an unarmed guerrilla is a war crime. He called them donor AKs.
It's a reference to the fact that AR receivers are machined out of blocks of aluminum while AKs are stamped out sheets of steel peeled from the sides of German Tiger tanks. (I may have made up the part about the Tiger tanks....)
That is an AK which is machined, they are first gen AKs. Most AKs you see are actually AKMs which are stamped, those have the funny looking diagonal cut on the front of the barrel (it's a very basic compesator). Machined means you take a block of metal and carve it out, essentially. While this makes sturdy receivers, they are also heavy, expensive, wasteful and wear out tooling.
So AKMs are stamped, where a thick sheet metal is pressed into shape by a hydraulic press. Then they are riveted/welded to the rest of the parts, which are machined. This was better cost wise and still retained most of the strength. It was also lighter. The thing about war guns is that they need to be cheap so they can be made en masse and quickly. Most guns outlive their operators in war and don't get to fire many rounds before they end up in the dirt besides them. They didn't need to be amazing quality.
Before the AK it's true that some guns weren't that great durability wise, like the SVT-40 and Gewehr 43. Those tore themselves apart. They cracked receivers because they weren't built strong enough for the full size cartridge coming from the Mosin and the KAR 98. Then they switch to intermediate cartridges which made those guns obsolete anyway. The full size cartridges were not really necessary as most engagements occurred at shorter ranges, so that's how we got the intermediate cartridge. More recently I hear the US went back to a bigger cartridge as in Afghanistan they were getting into longer range firefights and body armor got better.
The AR is indeed machined, but it's machined from aluminum. It's not really stampable and the aluminum is soft enough to not wear out tools so much. But it's a completely different gun, the manufacturing method has a lot less to do with anything rather than the design. Round for round I don't actually know which will last longer but I would put my money on the AK, mostly because it's made of steel. I think the aluminum receiver on the AR wears out quicker. So I think the AKM even though it's stamped, will outlast an AR.
That might be one of the first ones produced if it's stamped. It was designed to be stamped but they had issues with that and went to milled for a while.
Why would you stick your rifle in the water for 5 years??? Also the AR has plenty of steel in it to rust. Since you never actually did that, or have a source, you're just yapping.
And I was referring to steel rubbing on aluminum vs steel on steel. If you wanna go scuba diving grab a harpoon gun.
The gun sites all insist it wasn't copied from German or US design..and completely original. (but same gas system, rotating bolt, etc.) The PKM slowed down rate of fire and extended barrel length to almost match the STG-44.
Like an ICBM isn't copied from a V-1. History is what it is.
The AK is stamped which negates the crucial tolerances that machining accounts for but for that reason a grain of sand won't lock up the bolt carrier or charge ports... but there is a cost to mass production stamping and that is consistent trajectory due to barrel flex and ballistic resonance...the AK will tight group within 400yrds, possibly 500 whereas the AR will group 6" at 800yrds...but one thing about the AR is that if the platform is exposed to direct sunlight to the point of metal expansion the action will malfunction whereas the AK or SKS won't...what many don't understand is that in the area of firearms the consistent tolerances have to be within .4000" or else nothing is going to work.
Without going to check, I'm 99% sure the SKS I lost in that boating accident was milled. Heavier of course, but a much more robust rifle than the AKs I lost in that other boating accident. None were hitting anything at 500 yards
Do you really think that when the ZOGbots show up at your door — having gone to all that time and effort — they will be dissuaded from black-bagging you simply because you tell them you no longer have a rifle?
If you lost a milled Siminov you're place in purgatory is overdue...question, was the barrel fluted and the "clip well" modified to receive a mag?...if not it's more likely that it was a stamp...oh yeah, did you have a scope on it and was the mount configured to the carrier housing right near the safety lever/switch or an integrated picatiny rail above the receiver/breech area?
I adore the 7.62x39 cartridge. Such a practical little thumper. IMO, firing it through the AK platform is one of the most wonderful recoil impulses you'll ever feel and hear. Doesn't feel nearly as good going down the pipe of an SKS.
Mine's a 50s Romanian with blade-style bayonet. It'd be worth quite a bit if its beautiful red stock didn't have a crack. It's cosmetic though; still a great shooter. It'd probably fetch 5-600. They're not $99 barrel guns anymore, but good ones can still be bought reasonably, with some variants fetching vastly higher prices.
They've had this gun get run over by enemy tanks, grabbed it, and pulled the bolt back, and it still fired well enough to take down targets.
AKs are truly mechanical works of art. There's a reason why kings and emperors take photographs of themselves holding this gun. It's a gun with proven reliability.
[ - ] Moravian 1 point 2 hoursJun 19, 2025 10:31:30 ago (+1/-0)
The VZ-58 has a short stroke gas chamber making it much more accurate than an AK and it's Czech made. There are a few videos out there comparing the 2.
Not practical? They are very practical. The ergonomics on the AK are much better than the AR. You can reload it without taking your hand off the pistol grip, letting you do all that with one hand.
The AR requires you to switch hands while you reload it to cock the charging handle, while you awkwardly try to hold it against your shoulder. Or you can try to use your left hand to charge it and punch yourself in the face while you awkwardly try to catch the nub with the edge of your palm. The charging handle also doesn't tolerate lateral forces and binds easily when you try to do this.
The AR needs to be clean to run well, the AK is more tolerant. Not to say the AR is bad. It's quite configurable, and you can make it very light. They can be made 1 MOA relatively easily with the right parts. It's hard to make an AK light, customization usually adds a ton of weight to it and you're stuck with the barrel it comes with.
I have an AR, I quite like it. It's very light, has a pencil barrel. I made it to be light and portable, I don't like heavy guns. But I like AKs, especially if I have to use irons. I wouldn't want an AK that has been made "super tactical" as it will probably weigh 10 kilos and break your back, optics excluded.
[ + ] uvulectomy
[ - ] uvulectomy 7 points 17 hoursJun 18, 2025 19:21:30 ago (+7/-0)
Smug AR Owner: I purchased a $250 forward assist to enhance my rifle's performance.
Drunk AK Owner: I hit rifle with shovel. Rifle work fine now.
[ + ] __47__
[ - ] __47__ [op] 2 points 17 hoursJun 18, 2025 19:29:55 ago (+2/-0)
[ + ] uvulectomy
[ - ] uvulectomy 4 points 16 hoursJun 18, 2025 20:28:43 ago (+4/-0)
Makes things worse 9 times outta 10. "This will force the bolt closed so I'm gonna do that even if it's not the right thing to do when gun not go bang."
It's only there because retarded Army grunts wanted a button to push in case things went wrong. A solution in search of a problem, really.
[ + ] __47__
[ - ] __47__ [op] 1 point 16 hoursJun 18, 2025 20:31:45 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] SilentByAssociation
[ - ] SilentByAssociation 0 points 8 hoursJun 19, 2025 03:57:12 ago (+0/-0)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=803&v=nD0jVBYX7wU
https://yewtu.be/watch?v=nD0jVBYX7wU&t=803
[ + ] Consensus_Reality
[ - ] Consensus_Reality 2 points 14 hoursJun 18, 2025 22:00:10 ago (+2/-0)
Why would an AK owner have a shovel when he typically uses his rifle as a shovel?
[ + ] uvulectomy
[ - ] uvulectomy 2 points 14 hoursJun 18, 2025 22:03:19 ago (+2/-0)
[ + ] Consensus_Reality
[ - ] Consensus_Reality 0 points 14 hoursJun 18, 2025 22:04:11 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] JudyStroyer
[ - ] JudyStroyer 0 points 11 hoursJun 19, 2025 01:43:23 ago (+0/-0)
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2012/11/26/turning-a-shovel-into-a-ak/
Og link
https://everydaynodaysoff.com/2012/11/27/shit-shovel-ak-47/
[ + ] 2plus2equals5
[ - ] 2plus2equals5 1 point 11 hoursJun 19, 2025 01:14:42 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] BulletStopper
[ - ] BulletStopper 0 points 9 hoursJun 19, 2025 03:33:07 ago (+0/-0)
"Нет товарища. You can have shovel. Or you can have rifle. You can NOT have BOTH."
"Because now shovel IS rifle!"
https://imgur.com/gallery/old-gold-build-own-ak-47-from-shovel-TspVw
(Original thread from 2012: https://www.northeastshooters.com/xen/threads/diy-shovel-ak-photo-tsunami-warning.179192/ )
"Это хорошо, да?"
[ + ] con77
[ - ] con77 5 points 17 hoursJun 18, 2025 19:48:39 ago (+5/-0)
Not stamped
[ + ] __47__
[ - ] __47__ [op] 3 points 17 hoursJun 18, 2025 19:49:49 ago (+3/-0)
[ + ] ruck_feddit
[ - ] ruck_feddit 4 points 14 hoursJun 18, 2025 21:57:23 ago (+4/-0)
Stamped is pressing or rolling sheet metal into the desired shape. This is cheaper, and the parts are made with less precision.
Machined is when you carve something out of a block of metal. It's more expensive, but the parts are usually stronger, more precise, and more durable.
[ + ] autotic
[ - ] autotic 0 points 11 hoursJun 19, 2025 01:18:32 ago (+0/-0)
I have a buddy who was 82ndA and he would go outside the wire, kill a haji for his AKM, and then fight with the AKM because he liked it more than the weapon he was issued. A lot of times the hajis would take their shot, drop the rifle, and run because shooting an unarmed guerrilla is a war crime. He called them donor AKs.
[ + ] Consensus_Reality
[ - ] Consensus_Reality 2 points 14 hoursJun 18, 2025 22:03:22 ago (+2/-0)
[ + ] hylo
[ - ] hylo 2 points 13 hoursJun 18, 2025 23:21:23 ago (+2/-0)
So AKMs are stamped, where a thick sheet metal is pressed into shape by a hydraulic press. Then they are riveted/welded to the rest of the parts, which are machined. This was better cost wise and still retained most of the strength. It was also lighter. The thing about war guns is that they need to be cheap so they can be made en masse and quickly. Most guns outlive their operators in war and don't get to fire many rounds before they end up in the dirt besides them. They didn't need to be amazing quality.
Before the AK it's true that some guns weren't that great durability wise, like the SVT-40 and Gewehr 43. Those tore themselves apart. They cracked receivers because they weren't built strong enough for the full size cartridge coming from the Mosin and the KAR 98. Then they switch to intermediate cartridges which made those guns obsolete anyway. The full size cartridges were not really necessary as most engagements occurred at shorter ranges, so that's how we got the intermediate cartridge. More recently I hear the US went back to a bigger cartridge as in Afghanistan they were getting into longer range firefights and body armor got better.
The AR is indeed machined, but it's machined from aluminum. It's not really stampable and the aluminum is soft enough to not wear out tools so much. But it's a completely different gun, the manufacturing method has a lot less to do with anything rather than the design. Round for round I don't actually know which will last longer but I would put my money on the AK, mostly because it's made of steel. I think the aluminum receiver on the AR wears out quicker. So I think the AKM even though it's stamped, will outlast an AR.
[ + ] autotic
[ - ] autotic 1 point 11 hoursJun 19, 2025 01:21:05 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] NoRefunds
[ - ] NoRefunds 0 points 3 hoursJun 19, 2025 09:01:56 ago (+0/-0)
no it's not. edges aren't square and there are rivets above the magazine.
no it won't
stick both of them under water and see which one is still there after 5 years.
[ + ] hylo
[ - ] hylo 0 points 2 hoursJun 19, 2025 09:57:38 ago (+0/-0)
Why would you stick your rifle in the water for 5 years??? Also the AR has plenty of steel in it to rust. Since you never actually did that, or have a source, you're just yapping.
And I was referring to steel rubbing on aluminum vs steel on steel. If you wanna go scuba diving grab a harpoon gun.
[ + ] Belfuro
[ - ] Belfuro 1 point 16 hoursJun 18, 2025 20:34:45 ago (+1/-0)
But was built for peace time rather than the wartime stg44.
Also clearly has Soviet design choices.
[ + ] 2plus2equals5
[ - ] 2plus2equals5 0 points 11 hoursJun 19, 2025 01:09:06 ago (+0/-0)
(but same gas system, rotating bolt, etc.)
The PKM slowed down rate of fire and extended barrel length to almost match the STG-44.
Like an ICBM isn't copied from a V-1. History is what it is.
[ + ] Zyklonbeekeeper
[ - ] Zyklonbeekeeper 1 point 16 hoursJun 18, 2025 20:35:58 ago (+1/-0)
but there is a cost to mass production stamping and that is consistent trajectory due to barrel
flex and ballistic resonance...the AK will tight group within 400yrds, possibly 500 whereas the AR will group 6" at 800yrds...but one thing about the AR is that if the platform is exposed to direct sunlight to the point of metal expansion the action will malfunction whereas the AK or SKS won't...what many don't understand is that in the area of firearms the consistent tolerances have to be within .4000" or else nothing is going to work.
[ + ] ruck_feddit
[ - ] ruck_feddit 2 points 14 hoursJun 18, 2025 22:02:14 ago (+2/-0)
[ + ] Consensus_Reality
[ - ] Consensus_Reality 1 point 14 hoursJun 18, 2025 22:10:36 ago (+1/-0)
Do you really think that when the ZOGbots show up at your door — having gone to all that time and effort — they will be dissuaded from black-bagging you simply because you tell them you no longer have a rifle?
[ + ] ruck_feddit
[ - ] ruck_feddit 0 points 14 hoursJun 18, 2025 22:54:40 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Zyklonbeekeeper
[ - ] Zyklonbeekeeper 0 points 10 hoursJun 19, 2025 02:15:34 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Storefront
[ - ] Storefront 4 points 18 hoursJun 18, 2025 18:28:27 ago (+4/-0)
[ + ] __47__
[ - ] __47__ [op] 1 point 18 hoursJun 18, 2025 18:29:54 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] MuricaPersonified
[ - ] MuricaPersonified 2 points 17 hoursJun 18, 2025 19:05:08 ago (+2/-0)
[ + ] __47__
[ - ] __47__ [op] 3 points 17 hoursJun 18, 2025 19:09:18 ago (+3/-0)
My exes father had a communist era Russian sks and that thing was a dream. I offered to buy it but he said nope. Still had the star and everything.
[ + ] MuricaPersonified
[ - ] MuricaPersonified 2 points 17 hoursJun 18, 2025 19:13:44 ago (+2/-0)
[ + ] AlexanderMorose13
[ - ] AlexanderMorose13 2 points 15 hoursJun 18, 2025 21:03:17 ago (+2/-0)
AKs are truly mechanical works of art. There's a reason why kings and emperors take photographs of themselves holding this gun. It's a gun with proven reliability.
[ + ] Moravian
[ - ] Moravian 1 point 17 hoursJun 18, 2025 19:50:45 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] __47__
[ - ] __47__ [op] 1 point 16 hoursJun 18, 2025 19:55:55 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] Moravian
[ - ] Moravian 1 point 2 hoursJun 19, 2025 10:31:30 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] SithEmpire
[ - ] SithEmpire 1 point 14 hoursJun 18, 2025 21:57:51 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] hylo
[ - ] hylo 0 points 13 hoursJun 18, 2025 23:02:25 ago (+0/-0)
The AR requires you to switch hands while you reload it to cock the charging handle, while you awkwardly try to hold it against your shoulder. Or you can try to use your left hand to charge it and punch yourself in the face while you awkwardly try to catch the nub with the edge of your palm. The charging handle also doesn't tolerate lateral forces and binds easily when you try to do this.
The AR needs to be clean to run well, the AK is more tolerant. Not to say the AR is bad. It's quite configurable, and you can make it very light. They can be made 1 MOA relatively easily with the right parts. It's hard to make an AK light, customization usually adds a ton of weight to it and you're stuck with the barrel it comes with.
I have an AR, I quite like it. It's very light, has a pencil barrel. I made it to be light and portable, I don't like heavy guns. But I like AKs, especially if I have to use irons. I wouldn't want an AK that has been made "super tactical" as it will probably weigh 10 kilos and break your back, optics excluded.
[ + ] JudyStroyer
[ - ] JudyStroyer 0 points 11 hoursJun 19, 2025 01:37:46 ago (+0/-0)